Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by simon parr on September 23, 2015 at 2:53pm

Regarding Mr Livingstone-Strong. He mainly saw drawings that MJ took his time on, some drawings that are out there are quick sketches.

Didn't the Jackson family believe that MJ didn't record all of the words on his 'MICHAEL' album. Michael wasn't even around them for many years. And the same goes for Mr.Livingstone-Strong it was a number of years that Michael Jackson didn't deal with him.

Dick Clark was accused of owing fake items, due to a Lennon/McCartney guitar that one auction house believed was fake.

NO ONE IS AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING LIZZIE. And you aren't an expert at all. 

I have respect for you, but this commenting on things that at least 8 auction houses have sold for years is pointless. 

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Permalink Reply by Lizzie on September 23, 2015 at 2:55pm

And thank you David.  I really do appreciate your time.  But I'm afraid that I rate Mr Livingstone-Strong's authentication of MJ drawings above autograph authenticators, as he worked with Michael for very many years (since the 1980s), and a whole studio-full of drawings were completed by Michael in his presence.  I don't think there is an autograph authenticator in the world who can match that experience...and all the drawings were of course signed by Michael, so Mr Livingstone Strong is equally familiar with MJ's signature. .  As I said, we have to agree to disagree.

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Permalink Reply by simon parr on September 23, 2015 at 3:04pm

I don't disagree with any of Mr.Livingstone's Strong's items that he has are signed by Michael Jackson (BUT how do we know he didn't do a lot himself). Mr.David Livingstone isn't an expert on every MJ drawing out there. No one in auctions comes to him for his opinion. Wonder why that is? Anyway at the end of the day you have your opinion, but it doesn't mean you are right, and at least 8 AUCTION HOUSES IN THE WORLD are wrong. 

Can you see how stupid that all sounds. Someone who isn't an expert and saying that 8 auction houses who mainly have experts are wrong.

Thank you for your time. We have better things to do than make comments on everything. But I think you have exhausted the MJ subject now. So move onto another artist. Study let's say Elvis.

Have a good day (David has left the building).

Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on September 23, 2015 at 3:11pm

David himself has said 2. "Too many fakes out there". Nobody here has ever said every Jackson autograph sold through auction houses are fake.

Permalink Reply by Lizzie on September 23, 2015 at 3:25pm

Well, there was one message from this conversation that came over to me very loud and clear:

The consigner is responsible for items in auction. It is in the terms and conditions. And our buyers are happy, as we can show examples of similar items in various auctions around the world.

So it seems the 'proof' that an item is genuine is that there is something similar at another auction somewhere else in the world.  And it if turns out to be fake, well, it's the consignor's fault, not the auction house's.    We have been warned!

Here is what the UK Citizens Advice Bureau guidance says:

When you buy goods at auction, the buyer enters in to a contract with the owner of the goods, not the auctioneer. This means that if there is a problem with the goods, usually you have to take action against the owner of the goods, not the auction house. The auction house is not obliged to give you the owner's details, so tracing the owner can be difficult. However, the auction house does have some responsibilities, for example, it must not make a false statement about the goods.

You may be entitled to compensation if:

the auction house has been negligent and as a result you have suffered loss or injury; or

the auction house knowingly made a false statement about the goods in order to persuade you to buy them.

(Underlinings are mine, bolded parts are bolded on t

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice%20factsheets/Consumer%20Affairs/c-buying-at-auction.pdf

he website)

Permalink Reply by wascher on September 24, 2015 at 12:24am

This one was not listed previously by Lizzie but I'll bet you it came from the same consignor as the Christmas page and the other Snoopy signature.

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/charles-schulz-charlie-brown-...

Who's COA's are on these, or which top auction-house had these been in previously.

-w

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Permalink Reply by simon parr on September 24, 2015 at 9:46am

These came from a wealthy business man in the USA. Not from the same consigner of the drawings.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Saurin on October 4, 2015 at 4:32am

This I feel is a fair comment, no one is putting a gun to your head to buy a item you dought, as when I am selling a item, I will never go into to much detail, if, and when I sell the item I then go into more detail for the buyer, my thought over the last few years, knowing what I know these days, if you have any dought, STAY CLEAR

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Permalink Reply by Prashant Kaushik on September 23, 2015 at 3:35pm

The amount of information I have gathered in about 5-6 months on these drawings is astounding.

Simon, I will come out and say it...all of these signed drawings are from 2-3 different forgers and each of them have their unique style of autograph...and none of the signed drawings are from Michael Jackson!  If these were TRULY GENUINE, why are the auctions you have limited to a few to no bids?

A genuine signed drawing of Michael Jackson is in GREAT DEMAND, that can't be denied.  But have you looked at these drawings?  Are you telling me Michael Jackson had all the time in the world to sit down with CRAYONS AND MARKERS, and draw all of these in the relative same period of time?  I say that because all of these drawings seem to have the same paper type and the drawings and signatures seem to be done one after the other. 

And lastly, if these are TRULY GENUINE, why would they choose your auction house?  There are other high end auctions that would fetch far more in terms of value. 

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on September 23, 2015 at 4:24pm

David has said he doesn't collect autographs. Im sure they don't care about them that much and just help others sell them for a buck. Well here we collect autographs and are vigilant about authenticity and want to get it right above all. These members are here to help ,not gossip. We care!

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on September 23, 2015 at 4:53pm

Love those "Witch hunt and gossip" comments.

How many times have we heard that.....

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Permalink Reply by simon parr on September 23, 2015 at 5:36pm

Hi Prashant,

Why did you try to register in the auction? We only want genuine people to place bids. Anyone is entitled to watch, but don't attempt to register if you aren't gonna bid.

What I don't understand is the praise for Roger Epperson but you are saying a lot of drawings out there are fake when a lot have his coa. 

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