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Do You OWN Research. DON'T Trust TPG Blindly. Details & Dates DO MATTER. KNOW Your Subject.

Hello All. PSA/DNA "Titanic" Underwood and Underwood press photo, date stamped April 19, 1912 (just 4 days after the sinking). Listed for $10,000. Unsold thankfully (I think). Neat, huh? Wow! 

Unfortunately, that is obviously the just completed New York Chelsea Piers sitting right out the promenade windows on the left. It has been previously published as such. So...absolutely 100% sister Olympic in NYC, 1911, perhaps her Maiden Voyage. Now, I have been advising authors, researchers, modelers, publishing my own work in this area, dealing to collectors and selling to museums in the UK for only 17 years, but I am fairly certain the point was that Titanic did NOT reach her White Star Line Pier 59 in NY, which is IN this photograph? That negative number just sitting there...this also leads somewhere if one doesn't recognize what is right out the windows... ;) And as I mentioned, it has been published. 

This is why I do my own research and why I don't buy if I can't "see" it myself. This is why I believe dates and details are extremely important. Know your subject. Buy with your own eye. Perhaps one can argue the cert is "just" for the print as published and the very incorrect subject title does not come into play... - some sort of "we are just a venue..." or some such nonsense. I think otherwise. Subject must be correct!

Below I have tinted the structures that serve to positively identify New York in green (it was green). This combined with the fact the the image was originally published before Titanic was fitted out (linked below) eliminate any other possibility. You can see these structures in my pier candid above it you look closely. How long it takes to change a database I do not know, but this is something else to remember every time I see those darn stickers:

Photo in question published as Olympic Jan. 1911 & Dec. 1912

And something special for me below - a very rare and literally unique hand-tinted candid photograph taken aboard the Adriatic, which took the very last living Titanic survivor, Millvina Dean, back to England with her mother and brother. Her father was lost. She signed this for me just before she died early in 2009. It was among her last autographs. I selected this image deliberately for the content - this would be where she and her mother and brother sat going back home. I like to imagine that is her mother and her looking into the camera seated center (this photo is a bit later - C. 1920). I have never seen anything like it - just common post cards, usually modern reproductions. The rest of these colored images were sold to and published by liner researcher and author Mark Chirnside, whose excellent books and articles I have advised and supplied images for going on many years. His work on Olympic is regarded as superb. Some of the Olympic photographs I identified and authenticated have been published by him. Some came from the same album as the pier photo above. I was contracted to do the color restorations of the Cunard liner Aquitania for his Aquitania: The Ship Beautiful. It was the first time 30 or so true color Kodachrome images from the late 1930's to 1951 have ever been published. A great honor for me. 

 

EDIT TO ADD:

I'm back at home and have more time than I did when I posted. I decided to do the obvious and look for the image online - and it is there, misidentified at several websites. It is common then and now to mistake one for the other. Olympic was much more photographed for obvious reasons, and it was just easier to use the image at hand after the disaster, as in this instance. With a bit more poking (under 3 minutes in all), I just found the image in question online correctly identified as Olympic; originally published in Modern Sanitation, DECEMBER, 1911 vol. 8, No. 12 (Page 446-451) and JANUARY 1912 Vol. 9, No. 1 (Page 12-16).

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on January 22, 2018 at 3:18pm

I own several PSA or JSA or SGC items but none of them were purchased BECAUSE of the TPA cert.  they were items I wanted at a good price that happened to have the certs.  I totally agree, do not buy something just because it is certified. do you own research, it is well worth it.

Permalink Reply by Xwiesy on January 22, 2018 at 3:38pm

as a guy who sells, people want the cert.

they like the sticker.

Personally I hate paying PSA for something everyone can tell is authentic.

Permalink Reply by TradeGeek on January 23, 2018 at 5:54pm

That's to be expected. Most autographs aren't purchased by real collectors. They are just fans. I could care less about TPAs but the average casual collector that might purchase a couple autographs per year is far better off buying PSA, JSA or Beckett items. I was once one of those novice collectors. And I shredded quite a few forgeries that I purchased long before there were TPAs. It has taken several years (and a lot of time on this site) to really be able to navigate autograph collecting without TPAs. Most casual collectors will never put in the time. As much as I dislike the TPAs, I have come to realize they serve a purpose. 

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 22, 2018 at 4:12pm

Exactly - agree - "with" but not "because". Thank you for posting. The research also makes everything MUCH more enjoyable. Finding new layers of quality etc.

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on January 22, 2018 at 3:30pm

The authenticator(Henry Yee) of this photo has a big auction run of Type 1 photo's on EBay a couple times a year. Curious if this originated from him during one of his sales?

Interesting read for sure. Enjoyed it. Impressive work.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 22, 2018 at 4:10pm

Thanks Rick :) I am glad you enjoyed it.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 22, 2018 at 4:54pm

I don't know of Mr. Yee, but his profile at PSA suggests his expertise is in sports photography and memorabilia. 

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on January 22, 2018 at 4:19pm

Sound advice. Trusting anything simply because it has a "sticker" attached is foolish. Although, if you sell on a venue like eBay, the "sticker" sure makes it easier and for a better price. Like it or not, that is where the hobby is heading.

The hobby of today is vastly different than the one I knew 20 years ago. For good reason. Fakes, bad press, and even experienced collectors sounding alarms. As justified as that is, it still makes it very intimidating to a new collector to figure out who and what to trust.

There is more easily obtained knowledge if someone has the desire to pursue it. Most newer collectors don't have the desire. And the train keeps rolling.....

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 22, 2018 at 4:24pm

And that was very well said Joe, especially the last bit. Thank you. 

Permalink Reply by marc e on January 22, 2018 at 4:24pm

The problem with eBay. Any coa or stickey raises the price weather it' real or not and that's to bad.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 22, 2018 at 4:28pm

Agree again, John. In the wrong eyes, a coa or sticker can be a false sense of security. 

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 22, 2018 at 4:47pm

I'm back at home and have more time than I did when I posted. I decided to do the obvious and look for the image online - and it is there, misidentified at several websites. It is common then and now to mistake one for the other. Olympic was much more photographed for obvious reasons, and it was just easier to use the image at hand after the disaster, as in this instance. With a but more poking (under 3 minutes in all), I just found the image in question online correctly identified as Olympic in a period publication; originally published in Modern Sanitation, DECEMBER, 1911 vol. 8, No. 12 (Page 446-451) and JANUARY 1912 Vol. 9, No. 1 (Page 12-16).

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