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Has JSA called a authentic a fake?

Has anyone out there experienced a time when JSA told you a real signature is a fake? I know that they have certified questionable signatures as real. Just wondering.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on June 27, 2018 at 5:19am

Good autographs sell without stickers everyday. In fact, there are many collectors who prefer not to have their autographs "stickered". Without specific examples this discussion only covers territory already discussed over and over. Humans make mistakes.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on June 27, 2018 at 4:15pm

+1. I do not buy, sell or suggest anything with such free advertising attached and...such vandalism. I say this every chance I get.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on June 27, 2018 at 6:20am

I was under the assumption that when an authenticating company cannot authenticate something - they simply state they are unable to authenticate it (some will site unusual characteristics/flow etc). Can you show the paperwork where they called the item "Fake?"

I'm not defending them either if they got it wrong.... but I totally can understand not being able to authentic an item too as I am often approached on MJ's and I say I'm uncomfortable calling this one good. (Then again according to your other post, I'm not as bright as those who went to school for this or have formal training)

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on June 27, 2018 at 6:22am

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on June 27, 2018 at 9:39am

Wascher, I guess none of us are.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Douglas Shuler on June 27, 2018 at 9:07am

Yes, maybe you have heard of fraud, forensic documentation examination and graphology training programs at the university level and by notable other associations out there? You cannot be a so-called expert just because you own autographs, that is what you deal with with many of these "authenticators" out there. The first prerequisite to work at any of these companies, the first question they ask, is how many autographs do you own. To me that has nothing to do with knowing how to scientifically and aesthetically determine if an signature is real. So, before you go bashing formal training, you may want to get some.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on June 27, 2018 at 9:13am

I don't need formal training for the sports autographs I know and have studied.

It's a not a prerequisite for gaining knowledge of autographs.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Douglas Shuler on June 27, 2018 at 9:27am

Then you should apply to one of the authentication companies, you would fit right in.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on June 27, 2018 at 9:35am

So your are promoting the virtues of Forensic Document Examiners? The same ones that certify forgeries on a regular basis? There is NO substitute for experience and studying autograph styles of certain individuals. Many of the people on this site are as good as anyone in the world in their specific area of expertise. What you are missing here, is that where TPA's fall down is that they authenticate EVERYTHING. No one can be an expert on baseball, football, basketball, hockey, music, soccer, movies, tv etc etc etc. Yet these TPA's do it all, thus the mistakes. I fully support Mr. Williams comment. Name me ONE FDE that has a solid reputation in opining on autographs. I can name several that are butchers and crooks.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on June 27, 2018 at 9:43am

You were being polite in writing "Butchers and crooks."

And just as Terrier wrote, there is no substitute for experience and gaining the knowledge that it takes to opine autographs.

Well written.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Douglas Shuler on June 27, 2018 at 9:51am

It's not that I don't agree with you on some points, but lets get one thing straight, most all the examiners that work for these places are folks that just happened to know a few autographs, they are not trained nor have certifications/degrees in forensic document examination or graphology. A true, trained experienced and skilled examiner can with the proper tools and exemplars make a justification on any signature whether it be: Genuine, Forged, or Inconclusive. Let's don't mistake a shade tree authenticator from one that actually has the background for doing them. Basically, most all these folks that work at these companies are NOT forensic examiners, so we can just forego that title. Look at their BIO's, most say "I've been an autograph collector for years", well, what else you have? That's what I want to know. I'm with you on this stuff, but their are some true examiners that have the background to make the claim. Until these places want to trade quality for quantity, its gonna stay this way.