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How to handle a dispute? Please let me know your thoughts!

Hi everyone!

I would really appreciate your help regarding a transaction I’ve made with a trusted dealer (with a long experience of buying & selling) in a FB group where we can’t agree on a fair solution for both parties. I think it is most fair to not name either the dealer or the FB group and just focus on the facts.

Ok, here is the full (long) story: I sold two autographs for $520 to him and he got to choose if he wanted to pay a higher sum with Goods&Service or a lesser sum with Friends&Family, he chose to pay F&F. I then asked him if he wanted the package marked with a low value to avoid custom fees and he said yes to this. (See photo 1&2)

In my opinion both these choices were made to save the buyer money but both choises comes with a higher risk involved, which the buyer for sure knew since he has a long experience in the autograph community. I have myself bought lots of items where the sellers have marked the package low to save me from custom fees, always with the understanding that it means that it will not be insured and that I, as the buyer, will take the hit if something happens. I have always thought that was kind of a mutual understanding among collectors when marking an item with a low value.

The package was then shipped with trackingnumber and is trackable from me in Sweden to the buyer in the US. There is no way for me to put a $15 value on an item and then insure it for $520, since both shipping and insurance are bought from the same person at the postal office.

Unfortunally this time the package got lost, the US postal service has done an investigation and can’t find it.

The result of the buyers two choises above is that neither paypal (can’t use its buyer and seller protection since the payment was done with Friends&Family) or the swedish postal service (since it was marked with a low value) will cover for the lost package, meaning that if refunded I will take the full hit.

In my opinion I asked the buyer what he wanted, he got to decide what would be best for him and then I did as we agreed on. And now he still says this is all on me and that I should refund him all the money. I have offered him a 50% refund to be fair, although I tecnically don’t have to since he chose to pay with Friends&Family. And to be honest, the way he’s behaving I’m thinking of just block him and give him nothing back!!

When trying to explain this to the buyer he said that I was totally wrong and that he would make a thread on FB where he would ask the members for their opinion and according to him these replies would then determine how we settle this. But for some reason (!!!) he didn’t mention anything about him chosing Friends&Family and a low value on the package, that I shipped with trackingnumber and that I despite this still have offered him a 50% refund. If I didn’t know better it’s almost as if he did that on purpose to get the answers he wanted… He then uses the answers from the (misled) members to push me to refund him. And when contacting me with the results he for some reason only attach screenprints from the members that agrees with him, not everyone who doesn’t…

And now it has gone so far that he makes ”hidden threats” against me, saying that he will make a public post if I doesn’t fully refund him.

To get advices I’ve asked several of my long time collector friends how to handle this and one would refund even though he thinks the blaim isn’t on me, two would try to find a solution that both are happy with and the last three said that I shouldn’t refund anything, that the buyer fully knew what he was doing.

I have sold hundreds of autographs over the years and there have never been any problems until this autumn were two packages got lost at the same time. But the other had been marked with a correct value so after a long discussion with the swedish postal service (they never makes it easy) they finally covered the lost package and I could refund the seller and that situation got resolved. But the above is a very unfortunate situation for me. Here’s a link to some feedback I recieved at Autograph Magazine Live when selling here: https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/member-gogo?xg_source=activity

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts about this situation. Thank you for helping and take care!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JK on December 30, 2021 at 1:43pm

If you are talking about the US, we most certainly do have customs taxes/tariffs. but they are very often not enforced. 

Permalink Reply by Steve on December 30, 2021 at 3:28pm

If you are talking the difference between commercial and personal use, let’s be clear.

Personal vs. Commercial Use: Many import regulations only apply to goods imported for commercial - business or resale - purposes. For instance, most goods imported for personal use are not subject to quota. The one exception to this is made-to-measure suits from Hong Kong, which are subject to quota restrictions regardless of the use they are imported for. On the other hand, import restrictions that are based on health, safety and protecting endangered species apply across the board.  

You also may incur fees if an item has to be held and stored to determine if it is illegal or such.

Permalink Reply by Cogo on December 30, 2021 at 2:04pm

To be fair, he didn’t request this. He might have done this later, but I asked him if he wanted this (I always do when shipping abroad, once when I didn’t the buyer got mad at me for having to pay custom fees) and he wanted me to. So it was up to him to chose and I then did as he wanted. 

Permalink Reply by Eddy on December 30, 2021 at 2:13pm

Cogo....Given that you say that you introduced the option and the buyer accepted....it seems that you have your answer, unfortunately.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 30, 2021 at 2:16pm

yes :/

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 30, 2021 at 1:29pm

I buy and sell regularly. I do not feel any transaction is complete until the product reaches the buyer's hand. If I'm the seller I hold the funds until I know the buyer has it and is satisfied.

Permalink Reply by Eddy on December 30, 2021 at 1:47pm

Yes Joe, I agree 100% with that policy.  It's tempting to think it's over and done once you ship (and the money's yours).  Ultimately though, customer reception and satisfaction is the final step.

Permalink Reply by Dan Morris on December 30, 2021 at 1:35pm

I'm guessing here so please correct me if I'm wrong Cogo.

You either had items for sale or replied to some post asking what people had for sale. At this time the buyer agreed to buy at a price and you both agreed the price and therefore there was an offer and acceptance on the price. Then the buyer said how about you do me a favour and we do Friends and Family instead of invoice or normal transaction to save a few bucks and you said well okay and then they sent you the money.

Consideration then comes into play which is when the buyer said I am not paying your $50 or whatever the shipping cost is with insurance just send it untracked and it'll be fine.

Had the buyer paid via invoice not friends and family and then paid the full shipping cost you would be undoubtedly liable; however, you cannot at least in most places I've lived alter the original terms of the contract in writing to form a new agreement and then try to claim based on the original contract which you altered.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 30, 2021 at 2:17pm

Seller did not ask - FF was offered. 

Permalink Reply by Dan Morris on December 30, 2021 at 2:34pm

So was G&S and he chose F&F so has no comeback.

Permalink Reply by Cogo on December 30, 2021 at 2:18pm

I had these two autographs for sale and many was interested. The price was listed as a G&S price.

The eventual buyer tried to haggle, which is totally fine but his offer was to low for me. I then made two counter offers, one slightly higher price with G&S and one a bit lower with F&F but it was actually only a $23 difference. He got to decide, he chose the F&F alternative and I did as he wanted.

Shipping with trackingnumber was included in the prices and it doesn’t cost more to insure it. But it isn’t possible to insure a package for $520 and then declare a $15 value on the custom slip (which the buyer wanted) since I do buy both the insurance and the shipping from the same person at the postal office.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 30, 2021 at 2:23pm

I can't control anything the buyer does. But I can control what I do as a seller (speciality). NO FF offered, don't mess with customs and PP. Would we be here now?

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