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Hypothetically speaking. What would you do?

This is a follow-up discussion. Here is the scenario.

You decided to sell an autograph from your collection. Congratulations, all is good. You certainly have reason to believe it's authentic. No problems.

A short time later your buyer contacts you and informs you that your autograph did not pass authentication. What would you do?

A. Offer to refund the money.

B. Offer a trade for something else in your collection.

C. Inform your buyer that you know the autograph is authentic. You own it now.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 15, 2020 at 5:04am

I guess you can also respond if you are on the receiving end. You recently acquired an autograph. You decide you want it authenticated by an independent service. You believe the autograph is genuine. But it fails to pass. What would you expect?

A. A full refund.

B. A possible trade for a different autograph.

C. It's my fault. I should have known better. I will accept the loss. Lesson learned.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 15, 2020 at 5:09am

Ha! “What advice would you give my friend?” I hope that you are not the buyer in this hypothetical scenario, Joe. I will play along. A or B. A seller may also ask the buyer to get a second TPA opinion, but they should know better.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 15, 2020 at 5:15am

Sounds reasonable, Mike. Let's say, for argument sake, this autograph gets multiple authentications. Failing each time. How many hoops need to be jumped through for the sake of giving the benefit of the doubt?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 15, 2020 at 5:59am

In the case of multiple TPA failures, it would be in the seller’s best interest to refund or exchange the item. Otherwise, any reasonable person would suspect fraud.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 15, 2020 at 5:48am

BTW, buyer or seller in this scenario isn't the issue. I would guess many other members here have encountered this same or similar situation. Some have experienced this from both sides. It could happen to anyone at anytime.

This goes beyond simply authenticity. No one is perfect. Everyone should agree on that. Like it or not, whether collector or dealer, when money or things of value get involved; it's serious business.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on July 15, 2020 at 6:11am

It would be desirable to have your policy in place up front to avoid any confusion. But anyone selling an autograph should guarantee authenticity in that, if it does not pass TPA (and need to be specific on this), then money refunded. you have to determine what TPA opinions you accept, and whether or not a Quick Opinion qualifies. I would suggest QO alone would not qualify.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on July 15, 2020 at 7:20am

I actually hate when sellers write "guaranteed to pass any third party authentication." For one, that statement is usually worthless, as plenty of fraudsters selling garbage add it to further dupe clueless sellers. Also, since it's a guarantee most sellers can't truthfully make, it comes across as cocky and inherently dishonest. Furthermore, that verbiage always strikes me as sounding like a dare.

Accepting whatever this half-assed, uber-biased TPAs say as gospel is furthermore problematic. If you an accept a return on an item you know is authentic because some dode working for one of these companies blew that call, are you going to get called out for trying to resell it because their magic wand said it's fake? The hell with that.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 15, 2020 at 10:19am

So, from my understanding of your post, if a seller guarantees an item will pass any TPA they are coming across as being cocky and inherently dishonest?

And if they accept a return because their buyer questions the autograph and they should not try to resale it because one TPA thinks it's not real for fear of getting "called out"? Interesting.

What if another TPA finds it authentic?

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Permalink Reply by Rich on July 15, 2020 at 10:48am

My main point is again my dislike of these TPAs and their authority among some collectors. Sellers can accept a return for any reason for sure. But i this instance, it seems that TPAs and their bad practices have the ability to put a stigma on an item. On the other hand, I suppose anyone who casts doubt (whether or not they're qualified to make the call) could have the same effect.

My take on the "guarantee" is that I always interpret that as a promise with absolute certainty. Yet that's often a promise they can't really make, based on the reasons I've stated in the past. In any case, these sellers (usually) don't know for sure that any given TPA will give it a green light. So many times I've seen that note placed on auctions where the seller is selling a notably bad example of something - even if likely authentic - or a scribble that no one could possibly authenticate as real.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on July 15, 2020 at 1:13pm

Sellers that include ,signed in person and will pass any tpa and you know some items haven't even signed in person, is dishonest and a roll of the dice.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 15, 2020 at 1:23pm

I agree, some sellers are dishonest. If the autograph is authentic it really should not matter if in person or acquired second hand. Not sure why they would say that unless they were trying to hide something else. If the description is dishonest that should cast doubt on everything else including whether the seller will even honor their own guarantee.

If they say guaranteed to pass any TPA and it doesn't that is just cause for a refund or mutual exchange. I offer that guarantee on my autographs plus I state I will pay the authentication fee if it fails as well. Still it does not compare to actually having the item certified already. At least, from my experience.