Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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****WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION****
“Signed” copies of Liza Minelli’s new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, actually include autopen signatures.
Multiple signatures appear to share identical geometry in specific segments when overlaid.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures:
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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The signatures in these books appear to have been produced by an advanced autopen system capable of introducing subtle variations in letter structure and placement, likely intended to disguise the mechanical origin.
Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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+1
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Ya right, this lady signed hundreds and hundreds of plum perfect autographs...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vBbXyfRp6gs
jj
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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+1
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Permalink Reply by TRM5PGA
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Appreciate it JJ! You guys did all the leg work, happy we got to the bottom of this, and hopefully she will be held accountable in some way, either a public acknowledgement or something.
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MY 2 COPIES OF LIZA SIDE BY SIDE:
Look closely at the round sticker on the cover of the book on the Right.
There...fixed it for ya!
Both will be getting returned to Indigo tomorrow and will feature the NEW & IMPROVED sticker!
JJ
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Thanks guy, appreciate you posting that. It does look like that has some recognizable components to other ones we’ve seen. I’m still doing some overlays and will add your example in.
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Hey Guy, I was working with yours and another members on the site, Chris.This is yours with the indie UK edition from Chris. I was struck by how much was overlapping when messing around with them.
Not exactly, and the bottom line of the Z is longer in one of the examples clearly.
Just thought I’d posted I hadn’t posted an overlay in a while.
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So Class Action Lawsuit against Readerlink Distribution Services? I hate to say this but this isn't going to stop and as we've seen, the autopens (fake signatures) are only getting harder and harder to detect. A class action lawsuit for fraud, mail fraud, deceptive trade practices, breach of warranty (express and implied), unjust enrichment and whatever else a law firm decides to use may, I repeat may, slow them down from completely destroying a hobby (or business for some) that most of us hold dear. If this continues unchecked or legally unchallenged you're quickly hurling towards autograph values approaching zero. But hey, what the hell do I know.
Best of luck, Knob.
BTW, these are all autopens imo. Bookplated or otherwise.
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