Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
Starting this separate thread to track the Liza Minnelli autopen situation.
Signed copies of her new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Overlay Video 1 (click title to play video)
Note how “Liza” matches up (click title)
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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I was just messing with barkydoos with another example from ebay. had some areas line up like an L with the placement of not only the I but the I's dot which I believe all 3 would be impossible. haven't made a video of it because it can be a bit confusing to explain. looking for more convincing examples first, but its in my arsenal
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I believe a video would confuse more than it shows but heres some screen grabs
this one, the way the L lines up with the I,dot and start of the Z. maybe a one off and arguement can be made that its not exact, but this is happening way too often with other aspects. Im still working on others to help Matt out but posting barkydoos now since he was mentioned.
Here is the full picture. if you move Barkydoos picture, the other L also aligns nicely (loop is not as wide though), so does the ove but needs to be rotated a few degrees which takes too much time to post for max 7mb of video on here. again slight discrepancies but this is what the new autopen machines supposedly can accomplish
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Wow, thanks Steve! I appreciate you saying so. I was working on this overlay below when I saw your message. I didn’t have it quite right yet, but I’m going to go ahead and show it.
This is the book cover overlaid with Lumpy’s. Notice the Liza. I don’t have it exactly right yet, but I can continue to work on it.
I would’ve thought that maybe Lumpy received the real signature that got signed and used for the book cover. There’s very slight differences that would indicate otherwise, but enough similarities to be concerning for sure
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67
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Lumpy’s according to VeriMarx:
The ink pressure is consistently applied throughout the signature, with natural emphasis on the downward strokes of the primary loops.
The signature exhibits the rapid, fluid penmanship and rhythmic flow characteristic of Liza Minnelli
The ink flow and pressure patterns are consistent with a genuine, spontaneous execution.
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oh interesting, ill try to compare those on my end as well.. i guess they were stupid enough to use it as a template.. ha
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Matt, heres what I got with that comparison.. crazy how multiple aspects line up. had to cut the video short but ill post some pictures as well including the missing end of the video wher the A lines up
pictures
This one is just another example of how random pieces are too perfect. the eyes are exactly spaced
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Thanks Jason, I’m glad to see you up and running and adding some overlays. Yeah, we’re finding similar things.
I remembered that Lumpy‘s originally lined up with one from the Facebook group that Jimmy James had posted under the original thread.
I was testing That Facebook one against the cover and getting similar results:
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Jason, I know you were collecting your own examples but I’ve pulled that Facebook group that Jimmy posted back on the original thread.
Like I said in a prior post, It appears like somebody already had examined these and grouped them together accordingly
Pictures two and three on the left column appear to be the same picture so please just use one of those.
Otherwise, they all have differences well but some similarities when compared against each other. IIRC
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Thanks Matt, Im not sure of the quality you see on your end but they are too small of samples to use. I saw this previously. its way too pixelated when zoomed in large enough unfortunately. bummer on my end using a PC now (finally). good for smaller examples but there's no way to see the closeup details for better comparison
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Ah ok. Yeah, that may be a screenshot of a screenshot at this point . I wish we had better quality of those. I used them for a bit early on, before I had a lot of examples here. They were difficult to work with because they were so small. But it was where I first started noticing some of the repeating patterns/segments
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