Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) have gained media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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“START SPREADING THE NEWS”
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- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
UPDATE 4/1/26: JSA has classified the book signatures as "inconclusive," meaning they are unable to definitively confirm or deny the authenticity of the signature.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
The signature from the book cover above matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on
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That one was posted by Chris Furness. I just submitted one of the examples that Jimmy James posted to VeriMarx and received a similar result. No signs of being a reproduction.
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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Ah ok, thanks for clarifying. Yes, I think I previously did overlaying on Mikhell’s and another one. Good to know about the results of VeriMarx’s AI analysis. I’m curious what the major authenticators will do when they are presented with these.
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Here’s a portion of the VeriMarx results from the second signature:
• The pen pressure and ink flow demonstrate the spontaneity and confidence expected from a natural signature.
• The spontaneous execution and natural pen pressure strongly indicate that the signature belongs to Liza Minnelli.
• The signature exhibits the fluid, rapid-motion characteristics typical of Liza Minnelli.
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES on
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Ya, thanks for doing this BallroomDays67
I thought about using VeriMarx myself,
but AI evaluating other AI doesn't quite do it for me.
A machine evaluating another machine doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
JJ
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Why not consider its results? There's no downside.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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I was sort of joking - I did not think anyone would actually submit one!
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Matt, good job! Those are clearly too close for comfort. They are some sort of reproduction.
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Here’s BarkyDoos’ from Barnes and Noble
The pressure applied throughout the signature is consistent with a felt-tip marker, showing no signs of hesitation, retouching, or the mechanical uniformity associated with reproduction techniques.
The fluid stroke execution and lack of hesitation suggest a genuine, hand-signed autograph.
Ink flow and pressure points indicate a natural, authentic signing speed without signs of tracing or hesitation.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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I was just messing with barkydoos with another example from ebay. had some areas line up like an L with the placement of not only the I but the I's dot which I believe all 3 would be impossible. haven't made a video of it because it can be a bit confusing to explain. looking for more convincing examples first, but its in my arsenal
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I believe a video would confuse more than it shows but heres some screen grabs
this one, the way the L lines up with the I,dot and start of the Z. maybe a one off and arguement can be made that its not exact, but this is happening way too often with other aspects. Im still working on others to help Matt out but posting barkydoos now since he was mentioned.
Here is the full picture. if you move Barkydoos picture, the other L also aligns nicely (loop is not as wide though), so does the ove but needs to be rotated a few degrees which takes too much time to post for max 7mb of video on here. again slight discrepancies but this is what the new autopen machines supposedly can accomplish
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Wow, thanks Steve! I appreciate you saying so. I was working on this overlay below when I saw your message. I didn’t have it quite right yet, but I’m going to go ahead and show it.
This is the book cover overlaid with Lumpy’s. Notice the Liza. I don’t have it exactly right yet, but I can continue to work on it.
I would’ve thought that maybe Lumpy received the real signature that got signed and used for the book cover. There’s very slight differences that would indicate otherwise, but enough similarities to be concerning for sure
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Lumpy’s according to VeriMarx:
The ink pressure is consistently applied throughout the signature, with natural emphasis on the downward strokes of the primary loops.
The signature exhibits the rapid, fluid penmanship and rhythmic flow characteristic of Liza Minnelli
The ink flow and pressure patterns are consistent with a genuine, spontaneous execution.
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