Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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****WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION****
“Signed” copies of Liza Minelli’s new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, actually include autopen signatures.
Multiple signatures appear to share identical geometry in specific segments when overlaid.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures:
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath.
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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The signatures in these books appear to have been produced by an advanced autopen system capable of introducing subtle variations in letter structure and placement, likely intended to disguise the mechanical origin.
Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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I’ve updated the top of the page with a lot of the information to date. If anybody feels like I’ve missed anything significant, feel free to let me know.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Since the comparisons are vastly covered and I fell behind from being so busy, I went a different route. Posted more to social media. If you search, you may find my comments linking this thread. I've also attempted to reach out to people who purchased the book personally. I've received some responses but not as many as I would like but hopefully they see the message, head here, and a response is not necessary. I'm doing my best to spread awareness. The problem is, I can only post so much before I'm flagged as spam. If anyone else is willing, could you find a good related social media post and reply to a few comments linking this discussion? It's just a thought. Write it out and copy and paste a few times. Fast and easy
The other thing I've been doing is studying Liza's signing habits. So far, no luck from what I can find out there but was hoping to add to the argument of real vs fake in a different way. Anyways, here's a screenshot of a photo she signed 9 years ago. Just adding it on here in case it's useful in any way later on
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Permalink Reply by Stonefacejr
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I'm wondering if Liza (or someone else) used a lightbox to trace a template.
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A video from last night of Liza, this is the lady they are suggesting signed hundreds if not thousands of books with almost-identical autographs...
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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exactly Chris !!!
I think I posted the video of Liza at the GLAAD awards with the same
wheelchair bound and shakiness of the hands.
I mean God love her, and she's the GOAT on Broadway, and I loved her in Cabaret.
(check this out to see how absolutely brilliant Liza is/was:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgjOedirhcQ&list=RDDgjOedirhcQ&...
BUT
Don't cheat your fans with Autopens! JJ
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I honestly think she may not even know anything about it. I think she's perhaps being badly managed by the same team that recently released an AI-created song with her voice in it, and the AI audio book etc etc. I feel like her decisions are possibly being made for her...
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Wanted to say thanks for all the support, encouragement and messages
of Thank You's that this community has sent to me at JIMMY JAMES.
I'm sure I can speak for Matt M. and Jason H that they feel the same way.
I just wanted to make sure that TRM5PGA gets some big kudos too, as I believe
TRM5PGA was the very first on this site to flag and post the "something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
type message, regarding these Liza Autopens.
So thanks TRM5PGA !!!
jj
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Thank you Jimmy. You, Jason, and Knob have been so much help on this and deserve a ton of credit for that.And yes, I absolutely want to acknowledge that TRM5PGA was the first member to seriously raise the issue on the original thread.
Like I said in a prior post, my copy of the book arrived a week ago yesterday. I had already seen one copy on this site (Tobysautographs, under the Liza thread on the author’s page). I thought, wow those look really nice.
My own copy arrived and I thought, wow these look too nice. I looked at the back of the signature page. I noticed the flow/pressure seemed OK at first glance, and there were no repeated dots like we usually see.
I started researching the issue and doing overlays. Thought it was weird when I was finding. Then saw that TRM5PGA had raised the issue and others were starting to chime in. Pretty much laid the groundwork for this.
This is 100% a group effort and I thank everyone who involved in helping.
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Just saw the footage from her book appearance last night. Sadly, there is no way she signed anything. I adore Liza and they never should have offered a signed option only to fake it. Hurts the legacy.
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This is probably similar to what handlers did to Stan Lee.
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+1
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