Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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****WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION****
“Signed” copies of Liza Minelli’s new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, actually include autopen signatures.
Multiple signatures appear to share identical geometry in specific segments when overlaid.
Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures:
Check out these videos of various overlays, mostly from signatures submitted here on the forum:
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath.
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Lol, I hear you on that. Thanks to both of you for your help on this.
****I encourage everyone to send their examples to Steve as he requested on the prior page:
-High-resolution images (3,000+ pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and face separately, as close as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format.
You can visit his profile by clicking his profile picture, then select Send A Message.
Greatly appreciate your help, Steve.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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Thanks, Matt. And not JPGs because they degrade image details.
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Permalink Reply by Jake Stratton
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IMG_6956.jpegHere is mine just received from Premiere. Doesn’t seem to match any others.
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Thanks Jake, I’ve added that to the collection. I agree that looks a bit different at first glance.
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Jake, thanks, but could you please send me the original photo from your camera or convert the original photo to a PNG? JPGs usually degrade image quality and make it hard to determine fine details, and that's what we need right now.
Send pics to editor@autographmagazine.com.
Thanks,
Steve
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Steve - that’s the original hi res photo right off my camera.
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Sorry, I enlarged it more than 100% by mistake. Could you please take sharp closeup individual photos of the first name, last name, and face? That'll give me 3,000-4,000 pixel versions of each, which will allow me to dig deeper into the tech and ink used to sign it.
Thanks,
Steve
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I was looking at this one again from Jake, and I agree it’s different (especially the L in Love):I think we’ve seen two others on this bookplate (below), and to me, they both looked like they contained more of the familiar elements/segments that we have seen before. Anyway, worth keeping an eye on.
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I’ve updated the top of the page with a lot of the information to date. If anybody feels like I’ve missed anything significant, feel free to let me know.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Since the comparisons are vastly covered and I fell behind from being so busy, I went a different route. Posted more to social media. If you search, you may find my comments linking this thread. I've also attempted to reach out to people who purchased the book personally. I've received some responses but not as many as I would like but hopefully they see the message, head here, and a response is not necessary. I'm doing my best to spread awareness. The problem is, I can only post so much before I'm flagged as spam. If anyone else is willing, could you find a good related social media post and reply to a few comments linking this discussion? It's just a thought. Write it out and copy and paste a few times. Fast and easy
The other thing I've been doing is studying Liza's signing habits. So far, no luck from what I can find out there but was hoping to add to the argument of real vs fake in a different way. Anyways, here's a screenshot of a photo she signed 9 years ago. Just adding it on here in case it's useful in any way later on
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I'm wondering if Liza (or someone else) used a lightbox to trace a template.
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