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Authenticity is Everything
Question About Authenticating Items of Known Origin with 3rd Party Authentication
Hi all, Wondering if someone could help me out with a question about items which have a known source of origin. Im building a collection for my daughter that I plan on giving her in 20ish years. My dilemma is, if something happens to me and my time expires before I am able to, she will be left with items she won't know much about and might and might make mistakes selling them off extremely cheap, (if she decides to go that route..)
An example will be the newly released Paul Simon signed and numbered 25x25 litho.. in a situation like mine, would there be any point at all to having a TPA authenticate this? Beckett only charges $30 for paul simon currently. Of course I would make sure there isn't an ugly sticker placed on the front of this item, if at all. I do not have much experience dealing with authenticators in general and just wondering if anyone thinks it would be a good idea for my daughter to have their opinion on this, as well as similar items with known origin deemed authentic by the community already, if im not around? Thanks for any opinions
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on
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Getting an autograph authenticated by a TPA adds value and makes it easier to sell should you or your daughter decide to go that route. Of course, that would depend on how and where a person decides to sell.
For instance, if you or your daughter decide to sell directly to the public such as eBay a TPA is recommended. Or, you can leave your daughter instructions to consign it to a known, reputable auction service such as RR Auction and a TPA is not necessary.
The important aspect is that you leave instructions to whom you leave your collection to inherit. It's wise to plan ahead.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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Appreciate the response. Leaving instructions with her collection is a great idea. Maybe I should start some kind of journal to keep with her collection as well
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Permalink Reply by Rich on
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For most preorder/artist direct type items, best bet might be to just keep the receipts to document the source. TPAs are mostly redundant - at best - for this type of stuff.
Keep in mind with TPAs, you're also banking on these companies not crashing and burning (which most of them seem more or less set up to do these days, given their practices) within the next couple decades. She could very well inherit a collection of items with ugly stickers from defunct companies. In my opinion, it's best to just keep records of the source.
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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23 on
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+1 - I would keep any/all of the following:
- signed stickers on books; some can be definitively tied to certain booksellers et al.
- shipping envelope/receipt(s)
- screengrabs/printouts of the site(s) where the items were offered
- online receipts/records of where the item was purchased
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Thanks crazyrabbits23, I will be more thorough in gathering these items in an organized way going forward. I do believe that TPAs for items like the Paul Simon Litho are overkill but need to be sure how our community feels overall since I'm changing corse a bit. I have to think about these as investments for my daughter and not just fun collectables for myself.
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I know this is probably overthinking, but I do imagine about a nightmare scenario of advancing technology in the future. Autopens will be undetectable and anyone could use one for any name. Its possible they could advance to the point where you upload a real signature and the computer controlling it automatically distorts the autopen in slight ways to make every signature unique. Im sure something like this is far from being realized currently, but in 20 years, you never know.
I'm wondering if authentication. Even if they crash, would be a way to document the time period which the signatures originated, before autopens take over. I know it sounds something like a terminator movie. (I come from the futuahh to save autographs from machines using TPAs) lol but its a possibility. We just don't know the future of this hobby in regards to the affects of technology.
With my head out of the clouds now, I agree with you about ugly TPA stickers as well as receipts and documenting the source. Problem is, I have been very lax about it up until recently. These items were only ever meant for my own collection until a few years ago. I never looked at them like investments. Once my daughter was born, the only thing I did different was order 2 of each instead of 1. I am long locked out of old email accounts which are attached to phone numbers that are no longer in service. No way to authenticate who I am.. I can only retrieve emails from about a year ago starting with a new account. Maybe this is a good lesson for other collectors out there like me. Make sure your email accounts are always backed up with correct information. Especially if you ever change your phone number
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Keep in mind that a lot of the items from preorders don't really come in unsigned editions (art cards, certain posters, prints, etc). So that in itself might help as far as validating.
Honestly, if you are handing anything down, it might be best to focus on aspects of fun rather than the monetary side of things, as it'd probably be more efficient just to invest for your child elsewhere. It's also a guessing game whether your daughter will have any interest whatsoever in your collection. Even from a monetary standpoint, selling this stuff requires much more effort than cashing some bonds for example.
Post pandemic, when I started going back to live shows, for a while I was asking a few artists to sign one for my daughter as well, then I kind of backed off on that somewhat as I'm, really no sure if she'll actually want any of these things. I got her a few, but all of these artists are going to be 20-30 years older than her, and a couple will probably be forgotten completely. So . . . who knows?
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Ahh yes, thanks for reminding me why I started doing this in the 1st place. It was never for an investment for her. It was a way to get her interested in music. I screwed that up by deciding to hide it from her for 20 years instead just to eventually give it all as a gift all at once. Im going to have to take a step back and rethink my motives and whats best for her.
The investment aspect came about only because, like you mentioned, I though theres a chance she may not have any interest at all. As a backup, if there is a monetary value attached, it would make her happy regardless. I started to focus on the wrong aspect. Something I have never done before in my life. Ive also noticed a change in how I feel when scoring new items recently. I guess this is how money can change people.. thanks for the reply. I needed to hear this.
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Permalink Reply by Jor-El on
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I am mostly in the same boat as you are. I used to collect solely for myself and have many signed items personalised, often bought at comic cons. Then when I got kids I became more aware of my spending - I decided not to quit the hobby but did start to think of it as a possible investment. Not an investment to grow the money, as I'm sure some artists won't be as popular later as they are now, but to at least put my family in a position to recoup part of the money spent over the years. Therefore I try not to have items personalised anymore.
Having lost both my parents and currently going through the process of getting rid of most of their stuff, I would advise you to not keep it a secret but to share your hobby with your daughter. The memories she'll have are so important. Even if she doesn't like autographs per se it will be a nice memory of something her dad was passionate about.
I am afraid that if you don't share the hobby with her now, the whole collection will become something she does not have an emotional connection with. Then it could become a burden in case she would want to get rid of it and knows nothing about it.
As for TPA, they are only as good as their reputation. Having seen some stuff pulled by some authenticators, I do not have enough confidence to make a large investment counting on their reputation to last 20+ years. It's better to build provenance.
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I had this whole plan laid out, before she gets married or graduation or whatever, we would go on one last trip together.. something like city slickers.. I even created footage of my grandmother pulling out old boxes from our attic and finding a map.. (I was a videographer/editor for about 7 years) eventually I was going to create a video and a map(a la Goonies) to go along with it.. our last trip together would be a treasure hunt and I would secretly tell my sister to bury a treasure chest of autographs a few hours of us arriving.. it sounds like a fun adventure in my head but thinking about the value and trouble behind it, maybe its not the best idea.
I need to rethink all of this now. I still want to have one last special trip like I planned, if it works out, but I do not want to miss out on years of her growing up without these items. I really appreciate the response. its making me rethink everything which isn't a bad thing at all.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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You make an interesting point that has been on my mind lately -- the effect of AI generated fakes on the hobby. No one knows where this is going, but I do believe it may be wise to document high risk items sooner rather than later. How you want to document is your choice -- TPA is an option -- but if an item can be dated to pre "rise of the machines," it may be a benefit in the future.
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