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This is one method I use in authentication. What are some methods you employ?

To change the subject, in the recent Vincent Price SP discussion there was some question of authenticity. I showed first images below, under the SP, of several "tools" and it was suggested I make a dedicated discussion of this subject. I used one method that has proven very useful over the years. Viewing signatures alongside known exemplars (I miss TheCead!) flipped backwards and/or upside down in Photoshop to view form and negative spaces without the eye seeing the normal letter shapes and relations clinically from a different POV. Examples below. The Gleasons shown in negative allow a better view of ink dispersal and weight. I have not encountered many if any forgeries that can withstand this sort of scrutiny. The bad material sticks out immediately. The Gleasons can be enlarged by clicking.

What are some of the methods you use to aid in authentication?

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Permalink Reply by David Lewis on September 11, 2021 at 10:01pm

Eric, a few more names you mentioned  that were not phoned in and are still in a bank  lock box.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 12, 2021 at 1:18am

Hi David,

That is a nice early example C. 1945-50 or so. That is his early "D". All told he he had 3 styles of "D". I found a signed postcard from '47 signed in green fountain for a customer. It went for very little for a few reasons. Unfamiliarity with the style and it wasn't Dr. McCoy. I think both that and yours are lovely. He must have liked green ink as most of the early stuff and up until 1968 are in green fountain and felt tip. I even found him signing for Nimoy/Spock in green. Vulcans have green blood so that was interesting.

Thanks for posting this.

Permalink Reply by David Lewis on September 12, 2021 at 7:52am

I forgot the Carey's…..You have to have the Mom for "The Searchers".

Permalink Reply by Stepeanut on September 12, 2021 at 1:05am

As an experiment, I tried Eric’s method with a Joni Mitchell autograph of unknown provenance vs. one with impeccable provenance from my personal collection.

Here is the one of unknown provenance by itself, without any manipulation:

Turned upside down (unknown top, mine below):



Upside down and flipped horizontally (unknown top, mine below):

So, what do folks think?

Is the unknown Joni legit or fake?

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 12, 2021 at 1:36am

Hi Steve,

Thank you for posting this. These are from different periods, yes? That makes it more difficult. This does look promising but not a slam dunk - hard as there are different formations. Another of what I assume is an earlier example would be most useful. What do you make of your results?

Permalink Reply by Stepeanut on September 12, 2021 at 1:58am

They are from different periods, yes, but they are of the same basic style, which is why I think they are still a fair comparison. This is what I call her neat autograph.

Joni’s signature has remained remarkably consistent down the years, but there are a couple of variations that crop up regularly.  Sometimes, she’ll sign her first name above the M of her surname, as in the two examples I posted.  Another variant you often see on her lithographs and IPs is what I call her scruffy autograph, which tends to have a much loopier finish to the ‘…ell’ at the end.

Here are two more to compare.  This first one is from an early 1980s lithograph, the same period as the autograph of unknown provenance I posted above:

Here is another interesting one, supposedly from the same early 1980s period.  This one looks more convincing to me than the first one I posted.  Again, though, the provenance is unknown:

I don’t know what to make of the first one I posted.  Overall, there’s a lot to like in it, but, as you say, it’s not a slam dunk, which is why I would value your more scientific approach.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 12, 2021 at 2:12am

Hello again,

I'll try to make some time tomorrow to work on this. And thank you for the new exemplars. Those loops will be very useful.

Permalink Reply by Stepeanut on September 12, 2021 at 2:24am

Thank you!

Your opinion is much appreciated and valued, Eric.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 12, 2021 at 2:26am

Thanks Steve :) My pleasure.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 13, 2021 at 6:50pm

UPDATED: Here you are Steve, this the best I could do right now. These used to be in color as shown here. I'm sorry I cut off a bit of the litho - I'm rusty!

From top down: The one we determined is genuine, your known exemplar, the genuine litho and then the questioned item. I see the questioned as a bit atypical but genuine. Just 3 deliberately chosen points of reference have been used, I used to be much faster - this took me almost  2 hours! I haven't done these regularly in a while. Wish it came out a little better. Click for full image:

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 13, 2021 at 9:25pm

Anyone care to render an opinion on this Joni Mitchell from the comparison I prepared for Steve using one of my methods? You'll need to read the start of this discussion.

Permalink Reply by Stepeanut on September 14, 2021 at 12:22am

Thank you so much for spending such time on this, Eric.  Your work is very much appreciated.

My gut feeling was that this is genuine, but your input has definitely given me more confidence in it, and your methods are something I will use myself going forward.  The relative size, shape, angle, and spacing of the loops is telling, and not easily forged.

As Eric says, any other opinions, positive or negative, are welcome.

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