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Permalink Reply by marc e on September 8, 2017 at 9:25am

ray and stevie wonder sign the same way ,they have some one guiding there hand

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Permalink Reply by Christian on September 8, 2017 at 9:31am

i will look up how stevie wonder signs..this is interesting

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Permalink Reply by marc e on September 9, 2017 at 10:08am

ive meet stevie and hes signed for me and have the photo and at industry events with but what people dont know is he has a 8 x 10 that he has with his thumb print that he will send u if u ask for an autograph.

it takes a long time around 7 to 8 months depending.

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on September 9, 2017 at 11:19am

Phil's examples were included in another Charles' thread a few months ago. Here is the link:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ray-charles-signatur...

The possibility that the PC back was stamped was not mentioned in the earlier thread. Looked at close-up in the eBay link it does look a bit faint at its extremities, as a stamped signature might, but I do wonder if Ray's promoters would have use such a child-like signature for publicity purposes. I would think it must be possible to see whether it is a stamp or not under a magnifying glass.

As regards the NME example, I have to confess that I was always a bit sceptical about the exact placement and neatness of it, especially if Ray wasn't guided.  

In the earlier thread I included a signed programme that I bought at a Zurich fleamarket earlier this year. It was a massive coincidence that I found it just as the earlier thread started. The background is in the old thread but to save hunting for the image, here it is. I also attach a jpg.  

Attachments: No photo uploads here

• Ray Charles - A.jpg, 455 KB

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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on September 10, 2017 at 6:16am

I doubt he was trying to place the autograph above the text and trying to avoid the typed print as it would have been impossible to do so. It's just luck it turned out neat. I do agree with your point regards the stamp. It's just complete nonsense to believe that if they did use a stamp that they would mimic his real autograph, it would mimic a nice autograph. Plus I've got two autographs (out of the four that he did that day) and they are in the exact same pen but obviously slightly different - or did he have two different stamps?? Both are on different paper materials so how the ink has lasted over 54 years on each and absorbed into the paper/card will be different. 

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Permalink Reply by Jason Strecker on September 9, 2017 at 11:19am

In 2000 I got the Stevie Wonder 8x10 in the mail but the thumb prints were reproduced from his actual thumb print. An autopen, if you will, of thumb prints.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 1:05pm

"it was caused by the pen he used. Firstly these were taken face-to-face with him but if he was using a stamp elsewhere then no-one has ever seen a stamp like this and never will. I'll give a $1000 to the first person that shows me the same stamp. He also did four autographs that day of which two i've posted and they are all slightly different unless using different stamps perhaps??" - Phil S.

Please show other period signatures handigned with pens that produce those marks highlighted and the edges described & noted. You keep saying "face to face" - but...not your face? So...

As for the apparent non-existence of other examples, the passage of time. This does not render the postcard hand-signed as you know. Those marks need to be explained. They scream stamp.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 1:11pm

I am in "discussion" with this ink - not you Phil :)

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 1:14pm

"...then no-one has ever seen a stamp like this and never will."

Can you say that with certainty? I don't think so. 

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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on September 9, 2017 at 1:16pm

Show me one! I'll be waiting for ever. Ebay and the auction houses would be awash with them but they are not, they are full of clearly fake polished autographs that even I couldn't sign that neatly like the example at the top of this post. I'd expect if he did have a stamp then it would look like the original posters autograph. I can I think say to a level of 100% that no-one will ever show me a stamp that matches this autograph. 

But thanks for the amateur  detective analysis. I never said these were face to face with me, these are owned by a friend of mine who collected the best part of 1000+ face to face autographs during the end of 62 to early 64 and could get on a call and sit with someone and tell them about the experience meeting Ray and many other people during that year. he can place himself via tickets and programs and handbills at many of the venues and we certainly wouldn't fake up 1000+ autographs just to sell one Ray Charles autograph.  This was always going to be a problematic one to sell as very few people have seen a real one and like with this forum its full of 'experts' who giving their 'opinions' that are based on no real value. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 1:23pm

You have not addressed the ink at all. Why not? 

Are you in the UK? You might check out some of my "amateur detective work" in a new & permanent exhibit at your Discovery Museum Segedunum Annex in Wallsend. Not everyone can be a "professional"! ;) 

"I can I think say to a level of 100% that no-one will ever show me a stamp that matches this autograph." - Phil S.

Can you give lottery numbers? Just kidding Phil - but you can not know the future.  

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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on September 9, 2017 at 1:30pm

But we both know if they'd be stamping out autographs like that then it would be more than bizarre that they've all vanished and never come up for sale. I appreciate that you are saying we've either faked this or that my friend is lying that he met Ray but neither is true and I take offence to be called a faker or a liar. I don't deal in autographs, I don't collect them. I'm collating Paul's collection as he decided to sell a portion of it after 54 years. If you wanted to look properly and your in UK i'd invite you to view the entire collection and speak to Paul who can step you through many of the autographs he got from people from Ray Charles, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones to many that are long forgotten. If you want to look at this properly and do some real research and look at the real items and hear the stories then I'll happily invite you to a meet up to do so. 

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