Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by itf on October 19, 2021 at 2:09am

You would need some kind of reputation system to stop bad actors, I think.

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Permalink Reply by CS on October 19, 2021 at 3:44am

I'm surprised that some people want to go down this route, given all that's been mentioned above and the amount of complaints in delays, questions of authenticity and other nonsense that goes on here. Something sells out or you live in the wrong country? Get it off eBay or let it go. That's my helpful tip!

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Permalink Reply by Chris Furness on October 19, 2021 at 3:55am

If people want to trade let them deal with that by PM each other and sort it out privately. There are many issues as you say Rich.

People could set up buddy arrangements with other trusted collectors in countries and again this can be done privately. The forum would then have done its job by connecting and helping people with a similar interest.

Like others, just my thoughts. I simply love the forum the way it is and am so very grateful to all who participate in the way it was set up to do. Keep up the good work.

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Permalink Reply by Dan on October 19, 2021 at 4:05am

This seems rather difficult to organise, as other members have said many problems could arise. It'd be nice to have a restricted circle of reliable collectors willing to help one another with no money involved. I have started offering a few items for free to a few people already, I hope this will go around and they will help out other people as well This being said a rating system would be ideal, but probably not easy to implement. 

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Permalink Reply by Guy on October 19, 2021 at 5:05am

I wrote Steve a few days ago, and what I think we need first is a place where we can have general discussions outside "direct sales" (and also ,if possible, some private discussions) , as there are many topics that do not fit here, and even a follow up on some of the received goods will make the thread jump to top (and send many unwanted follow alerts), which is not desirable.
So perhaps a shadow thread in another forum with chit chat for the more popular conversations, leaving the "Music-direct" only for real updates.

As for actual trading/pre-order , I believe this more complicated than we think, not only because of bad seller option, but also due tot other problems raised here. A person that asks someone to get him something needs to take full responsibility on his/hers request, like returns/autopen/missing autograph(anyone else still waiting for the billy idol one?)  or whatever.

Last thing, it would also be nice to be able to react on a comment with a smiley (e.g. Thumbs up on something you agree).
And Last Last thing, I understand there should be an update to the website coming up :)

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 19, 2021 at 6:08am

One of the first things that comes to mind is the Ebay sellers who sell things they don't actually have for stupid prices, and then how badly that can go depending on absurdly poor quality (Lady Gaga), autopens (Ozzy) and even really low quality rubber stamps (Tate McRae). Likewise, if people start selling/trading things they don't have in hand here, that's a recipe for chaos.

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Permalink Reply by damageinc777 on October 19, 2021 at 6:14am

Personally I think the idea is good. It would be cool if there were another section dedicated to it. But that it be kept at someone making a 'looking to get offer' and the rest should all be done via PM. Personally I would most likely pass on ever putting myself in the position of trading. Although if there was a more than one limit I would order for someone else no problem (as long as it was something normally priced). But I say via PM because the 2 parties would have to agree on whatever. We all shouldn't be included in the actual transaction or offers. The people offering Lady Gaga/Tony Bennett for Elton John a couple of weeks ago IMO wasn't a great trade. But if the two parties agree to it who am I to say any different? Some of these the 'buy' price like Gaga/Bennett was under $20 but immediately they went for $200+ on eBay. So for myself I wouldn't actually know a starting point on what the trade value is which is why I would probably stay out of it. Do you go by the paid for price or the actual value price (not claiming eBay is that) when setting it up?

I also collect guitar picks and have had issues in the past where someone wanted to trade 1 for 1 but the values per pick change and it just ended up being a pain in the butt. In some instances you could sell a single pick and buy 10 of the other with the money you got for the one. So why would you trade 1 for 1? So I have a little experience in this type thing which would cause me to pass and just avoid the headache or p****** someone else off who is probably a good person who doesn't look at things the same as I do. They are just happy getting 2 autographed items.

As I said if done via PM to each their own. As long as both parties are happy why not?

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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23 on October 19, 2021 at 12:11pm

The problem with hosting a private forum where you will discuss things outside "general sales" (ostensibly in an attempt to keep certain sales/deals away from scalpers and the like) is two-fold.

(a) It creates a "have / have not" atmosphere where certain users aren't classified the same as others. It needlessly segments discussions (which are already segmented enough as it is, via all the specialty boards, so much so that there are users on this site that seem to think it's all musician autographs, all the time, and that's all that can be allowed) into further camps. That doesn't help anybody, and the people who are going to snipe deals aren't going to be discouraged by a single site gatekeeping discussions. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

(b) It solves nothing. There are plenty of people out there who either keeping up with or scooping this site on deals. Blowout Cards is just one forum, but there are others. 

If there's a problem with people derailing threads with shipping / frivolous discussions, you should call a mod for cleanup, and/or click the "Stop Following" tab underneath the comment box if your inbox is being spammed. (That's what I did with the Grohl discussion.)

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Permalink Reply by Wildy on October 19, 2021 at 6:02am

I think that straight sales are not easily operable without a lot of risk for the owners of the site.  Acting as a discussion venue where those transactions are raised, but where the transactions are completed as private sales through sites such as eBay or Discogs might be more readily operable.  Then this site exists are a place to begin discussions, but the transaction can be arranged through a site where formal buyer and seller protections exist.  Discogs is likely the better route for something like this as the fees tend to be lower than on eBay, and they have VAT registry to avoid messy holdups for international transactions.  Even straight trades through the site have the potential to get ugly.  There are too many rules and venues to be able to safely conduct these transactions without the site taking on an element of risk.  This will require legal and financial oversight and could still result in legal actions being taken against the site's owners in some cases (sad, but true.)

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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23 on October 19, 2021 at 11:32am

This - trading "pre-order slots" requires a whole number of links that could fail at any point. Was the release delayed? Do you trust the seller/buyer enough? Is there liability protection in the event that the pre-order is pushed back several months? What is the "in-kind" value of the item being traded, and has that increased/decreased? Even EBay has had challenges with big-ticket releases in the past that have been delayed by months, forcing sellers to scramble to either refund or credit their customers.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 19, 2021 at 12:03pm

All of this is good reason to continue avoiding the practice I suppose.

Personally, I don't recall trading really anything since I was a kid (baseball cards, maybe?). I buy things I want and sell - or give away, depending on the item and circumstance - things I don't need. Typically trades aren't necessary. But people like trades, I get it.

My personal take is that if you miss out on a preorder, the next best shot is going to Ebay (or Depop, Mercari, etc) to buy them once people have the item in hand. I realize this sounds like blasphemy, but it's not quite as bad as you may think. A good amount of the time you actually can get items for close to - or even below - the original cost. There's also the advantage of buying exactly what you want and knowing what you're getting, including the condition, product/signature quality and authenticity scouting report. Obviously anything that is genuinely limited and in high demand will be much more complex, including older releases in which the artist subsequently rose in popularity (and hence the item in value). 

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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23 on October 19, 2021 at 6:17pm

Yes, that's a point I've made in the past. Whatever the scarcity of an item may be, it's a fairly good bet that if it's a modern release and it's been scalped to hell and back, there's going to be a race to the bottom. I've managed to bag a couple of "white whale" items this year, due to a combination of luck and the "dip" (to quote an stock term). There's too much FOMO (fear of missing out) in the collector/autograph community, when it's easier than ever to get stuff you want, particularly if you want a few weeks until the market saturates.

I think a place to trade pre-orders is a good idea in a vacuum, but it relies heavily on trust. I have a "gentlemen's agreement" with a buddy of mine, who is both a friend and a collector, where he gets me signed stuff and I pay him either in-kind (like-minded signed books he wants) or a flat $10 fee per item... but that's a working relationship that has been built up over the last two years and relies heavily on in-person contact (and thrift store tours in tandem). Not the same online, unfortunately, especially in a time when fraud is rampant.

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