Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) have gained media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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“START SPREADING THE NEWS”
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- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
UPDATE 4/1/26: JSA has classified the book signatures as "inconclusive," meaning they are unable to definitively confirm or deny the authenticity of the signature.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
The signature from the book cover above matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES on
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Thanks big time Matt M.
can't wait to see what the MMOFDT c.2026 says!
The first/top exemplar looks VERY familiar to others.
but
The second/bottom exemplar has a slight upstroke at the end of the letter L
in "Love"
that I haven't seen before?
JJ
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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I don't see any signs of machine-signing on these. Any similarities look natural.
How many exact duplicates have been posted, here or on other sites or groups? Please post them.
I'm checking in as I can, but I am jammed right now. That's why you don't see me as much these days.
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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Steve, thanks for taking the time to respond and let us know what you’re thinking.
Let me take a step back and share my thoughts about all this.
When we see something in the hobby that raises red flags, I feel like we should say so. My intention isn’t to stir things up for the sake of it, but I do believe questionable patterns deserve to be examined openly.
I’ve been part of this forum for a while and have participated in similar discussions before (including the situations involving Bob Dylan, Dolly Parton, and Bon Jovi autopen questions). In those cases, like here, the goal has always been the same: look at the evidence and try to figure out what we’re actually dealing with.
I’m not an autograph expert and I’m not claiming to have the final answer here. What I’ve been doing is looking at the signatures as objectively as I can and sharing what I’m seeing so others can evaluate it as well.
Yes, the main tool I’ve used is digital overlays. In this case, what caught my attention is how many elements appear to line up extremely closely across different examples. It’s not just general letter shapes, but spacing, curves, and specific segments of the signature that appear to match up in ways that seem unusually consistent.
As we know, tiny differences in curve shape, letter spacing, angle, or proportion tend to creep in from signature to signature. What surprised me here is that certain segments, when overlaid, appear to align with almost identical geometry across multiple examples. Not entirely but some segments do.
That level of repetition is what raised the possibility that something more mechanical could potentially be involved, because identical geometry repeating across multiple signatures is generally not what you expect to see with natural handwriting.
I know you asked why there aren’t exact full-signature matches if these were autopen or mechanical reproductions. That’s a fair point. My understanding is that older autopen systems often relied on a single fixed template, but modern signature-reproduction tools can work differently. They can be vector-based, digitally captured, or software-assisted, which allows signatures to be slightly altered, scaled, or adjusted between uses. In those scenarios, you may not see full one-to-one matches across entire signatures, but you can still see repeating geometry in specific segments — exactly what we’re seeing in these examples. Is it possible this new technology can produce autopen signatures that can maintain a realistic flow and not leave dots?
Based on what I’m seeing, the similarities appear strong enough that the possibility of autopen or some other type of mechanical involvement at least deserves serious consideration.
I understand that overlays alone don’t prove that definitively, and I’m open to other explanations (including that exactness can be maintained across many autographs). But the level of geometric similarity is what prompted me to bring it to the forum’s attention. If others want to look at the overlays themselves or try the process independently, I would actually encourage that.
I also completely understand that some members think the signatures may be genuine, and that’s a valid viewpoint. My goal isn’t to dismiss those opinions, but to present the comparisons so people can examine them and decide for themselves. Again, I know autopen discussions can feel like the hobby crying wolf, but occasionally those discussions have turned out to be important.
For what it’s worth, I don’t take these issues lightly. I own one of the Bob Dylan paintings that were discussed in the earlier in the discussion. It takes up a large amount of real estate on my wall, and the questions around those signatures have honestly made it difficult for me to even look at it the same way. That experience is part of why I care about getting these things right and getting to the bottom of them.
I also want to acknowledge that discussions like this may put the site in a difficult position. This forum sits at the center of the autograph hobby, and many collectors, dealers, and industry people pay attention to what’s said here. I appreciate that weighing in on questions like this isn’t always simple, and I respect the fact that the site has always allowed open discussion of these topics even when they’re uncomfortable.
We also obviously value your opinion and recommendations. My intention is simply to examine the signatures and let the evidence speak for itself.
If the discussion and comparisons are helpful, I’m happy to keep putting in the time to examine the examples and share what I find. But if people feel the topic has run its course or everyone is exhausted by it (which I completely understand), I’m also fine with letting it rest
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Matt,
The topic has NOT run its course. Thank you so much for your passionate, hard work on this.
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Those backs don't show signs of machine signing. Completely natural.
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History for Sale has 42 Liza Minnelli signed items for sale, including contracts. Many are in marker. They range from the 1960s until probably 2008 or so. https://www.historyforsale.com/s/Liza%20Minnelli
They are honest and reliable. You may find secretarials from time to time, honestly missed, but they state they'll refund your money if they fail PSA/DNA, etc.
AND if people tell the dealer about pieces that they don't think are real that the dealer missed, they take it seriously and remove ones that don't check out. That may be why there are so few Jackie Gleason autographs.
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Permalink Reply by michelle on
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Here is a Liza signed poster from 2 years ago
bit of a difference to the peachy perfect ones now signed
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Lovely, and starting to show the degradation Joyce Randolph met at older age.
1987 age 63:
November 2013 age 89:
2019 age 95(!):
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