Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim Cushman on November 30, 2012 at 6:50am

I remember seeing a Sgt.Pepper at auction a few years back...all 4 signatures were removed from other items and were applied to the Sgt.Pepper centerfold...therefore...you had a "signed" Pepper album...and that was stated in the catalog.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on November 30, 2012 at 7:39am

It may just be that as a historian I dislike altering original items to "recreate" something.  Certainly if all of the paper on the album is not original that needs to be disclosed no matter how expertly it is done.  It is just like removing inscriptions the buyer has the right, and the seller (in my opinion)  the duty to disclose that.  Once done then the buyer can determine if they want to buy or not.  Having said that in my way of thinking it makes a nice display, but historically this is not an album signed by all four it is three albums made into a new display piece.  As I said I may just be a stick in the mud historian about such things.

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Permalink Reply by Brian M. Wazac on December 1, 2012 at 10:26am

I agree w/ you 100%  Scott.

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on November 30, 2012 at 3:50pm

So how would this take place? I may just not be up on technology but it would seem very hard to pull off in my mind. Would this literally be a cut and paste job from one album to another and then use some kind of filler to hid the cut in marks?

Or when we are talking about this kind of process, do they lift the signatures off of the album somehow and paste their copies on another album?

I am guessing it would almost have to be the first choice, as i dont know anyone who would care for lifted signatures, as they would be basically copies. I am just surprised anyone would let an original signed Beatles album be cut upon in any way shape or form. Even if it was to attempt to put all 4 on one album. Honestly it would seem that the major purpose for doing so would be to resale for a higher value. Which is fine, but the seller should have absolutely said that first thing in the description.

And yet the seller only included it after questioned about it. That is something to me that spells deceit as the seller obviously would have rather the buyer not known that. But all this doesnt change the fact if the sigs are real, which i cant make up my mind on. Real signatures are real signatures but i would be surprised if any Beatles collector would buy a bunch of different individually signed beatles items and then have them cut up and pasted to one original album. Maybe so but most Beatles collectors that i have seen treasure their signatures and would blow their top to see them cut upon.

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Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on November 30, 2012 at 5:55pm

carl, i'm with you, it blows my mind. i don't get it. why waist a real sig. just for profit. but i know there are a lot of people with cash to the tune of $8000.00 that would go for it. the more i know the less i understand!?!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 30, 2012 at 6:15pm

There's a guy in California named Jaime Mendez that does it. Does all sorts of paper collectables restoration, rebuilding...and more. I saw a Beatles Frankenphoto he did and it was amazing. Two of the same 8x10 with two good autographs on one, and two good ones on the other.

The only reason it was caught was that the buyer went to Frank Caiazzo after he purchased it for authentication, and Frank remembered the signatures and that at one time they weren't all on the same photo!

Some of this work is fairly represented, and some is just plain fraud. There was a million dollar poster fraud a couple of years ago, where almost perfect reproductions of classic posters were mounted on vintage backings. Jaime was the one was hired to do it. The client was charged and convicted, but since Jaime just did the work, and it could be done for legit purposes, he was not. 

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Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on November 30, 2012 at 6:25pm

very interesting steve, thanks.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on December 1, 2012 at 11:05am

If you look closely, you can see a slight difference in color around the Paul and George signatures where it was touched up. They weren't quite able to match the original color. The John and Ringo signatures don't appear to have that issue. 

Perhaps they're authentic, but I've never seen a John signature in which the "O" was written in a counterclockwise direction, and then doesn't connect directly to the "H". The odd appearance of the Paul signature may be due to the touch up work.  

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Permalink Reply by Brian M. Wazac on December 1, 2012 at 11:33am

Dead right on the John auto.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 1, 2012 at 5:00am

all things considered, if someone is just looking to have a signed beatles album to display, and is ok with the history, what the hell.  but  for resale, I see the value of these (if they are indeed authentic) as nothing more than 4 cut Beatles signatures, which probably would be around 4-5K. 

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Permalink Reply by spaceman on December 2, 2012 at 8:30pm

I  would not pay any where near 4000 for this. Surely the provenance or in this case no real provenance should be factored in. If these types of beatle sets become the norm . Creative sharks will ruin the real thrill of collecting  rare beatles autographs. 

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Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on December 3, 2012 at 7:20am

i wouldn't want it either.

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