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Authenticity is Everything
PSA/DNA Certified Items - Right or Wrong
Not being a dealer or auctioneer I am perfectly suited to referee this discussion if need be. This section is mostly for Items that PSA/DNA has certified that in an opinion of authenticators has missed the mark (AND NOT as far as they know been corrected) along with any other items of significance.
In some cases the certification provided might be a simple rejection while in other cases it's certifying it as authentic when it may be far from it.
The thread is not about the good, the bad or ugly of 3rd parties as there is already an excellent thread in the forum on this started by R&R's Bobby Livington that everyone should follow. That thread alone has produced three disccusions on Farrah Fawcett, Elvis, and now this.
Hopefully, AM members will follow this thread (I am sure the fraudsters & propaganda machines will) and point others to it - Perhaps, the owners of the item that is cited. Those owners can then deal with the authentication firm or sellers and report back their journey.
Since I don't expect the PSA/DNAs of the world to come online and defend/refute (althugh the have an open invitation) the postings then be advised this is not a thread to speculate, accuse, or otherwise besmirch what is or what isn't being done.
So 'nuff said and on with the items. To keep discussions focused and contained - Each Item contributors need to stay in the realm of that item so commentary is not all over the place.
remember if you post an item denote the PSA/DNA number on their sticker... One, if they choose can also validate the item's number on the PSA/DNAs database to see if it is in fact a product of PSA/DNA as we have heard that the fraudsters are/have created bogus ones and report your findings here.
Tags: certification, certifications, errors, forgeries, psa, psa/dna
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Greg,
Thanks. We'll have the database going fairly soon. First Charles Hamilton's "American Autographs" goes up.
The database will be a big help, but it won't completely replace experts. But what it will do is help collectors eliminate getting stuck with obvious forgeries. Since that's 90% of them, that will be hugely valuable.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on
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If you have ever followed his ebay auctions (like the one above), then I don't have to tell you that would be a big Joke..... Get a copy of the autograph book he put out about 10-15 years ago and count the mistakes in there. I myself fell pry to his claim to be an expert and reputable dealer years ago and bought a Frank Morgan signed photo from him about 9-10 years ago on eBay. I still have the forgery.
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When we bought Autograph Collector Magazine in 2004 it came with thousands of Autograph Collector Autograph Authentication guides--I forget the exact name. But I sent the book around to experts and they found so many questionable autographs that I pulled them from the stores and distributors, and had them destroyed.
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what I find disturbing about the wicked witch sdisclaimer buried below;
The items listed for sale in this auction are sold AS IS. Please e-mail us with any questions as all sales are final.
so much for COA's and this particular forensic authenticator
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PSA/DNA and JSA are in a whole different league than GAI and ACE. I think everyone here knows that. If GAI is an eBay-approved authenticator, it's because eBay doesn't know any better. I didn't know they were. Are you sure?
And it's no secret who authenticates for PSA and JSA. You may not know the particular authenticator who viewed it, but you know who their authenticators are.
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I can only tell you what my own research has uncovered. I track hundreds of autographs a month on eBay. I even keep an eBay forger list. And based on what I have seen PSA and JSA are FAR better than GAI which just seems to stamp almost anything approved. There use to be another eBay approved authenticator called Online Authentics. They went to another level of NO credibility. A number of the forgers on my list were getting Online Authenicates COAs. I am not sure if OA is still an eBay approved service.
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A lot of people like the sticker on the front, but I'm with you Travis--it ruins the photo for me.
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Permalink Reply by Lou reves on
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Jason Iconagraphs is a UACC registered dealer and as we know they dont sell fakes... yet again the UACC is a front for fakes!
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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on
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I am the Global Authentics NASCAR Authenticator....The reason that I insisted that Global Authentics create the GA Motorsports COA is to have my name and signature posted on each COA. I want each customer to know that I am the very person who authenticated their item. Keeping up with the constant flow of signature variations in NASCAR is a full time job. If by chance I make a mistake, I want the buyer to know that I am the responsible party and not some nameless "expert".
As a Member of ebay's fraud division, I have had to remove NASCAR items authenticated by ALL companies...even GAI items that were authenticated prior to my arrival as the NASCAR expert. I have NO qualms about explaining to a customer that their NASCAR autograph authenticated by Mike Baker, Justin Priddy or Steve Rocchi is a forgery and the reason it was authenticated was due to Mike Baker, Justin Priddy and Steve Rocchi simply not knowing better.
If anyone here knows the story of GAI's problem authenticator (JP ) who know runs ACE...then you know why so many bad GAI certs flooded the market. Thankfully Steve Sipe ( Formally of Upper Deck ) took over and removed both Steve Rocchi and ike Baker from the autograph fold. Steve Sipe works with owners of these bad GAI coas everyday with the two fold purpose of removing the item from the market and refunding the money to the customer.
So, if you see something you don't think is right, just contact Steve at ssipe@globalauthentics.com or call him at 949-366-9500. Steve, like me works close with the ebay fraud division every day so, it is easy to have a GAI item removed if it is warranted.
A few years back, I kept having customers insist that I blindly authenticate NASCAR items like the others at GAI, PSA, and JSA were doing ( I'm not saying PSA and JSA were, this is just the claims that customers were making at the time). I refused and later found out that GAI COAs were indeed being applied to items by the THOUSANDS as fast as JP ( now of ACE authentication ) could work...not authentication, just blindly applying labels and coas. When I brought this up to the management, it lead to the firing of JP ( well, he resigned before they fired him ). I'm sure that many customers still get items authenticated in bulk from all companies. However, when it comes to NASCAR, I simply WILL NOT do business this way...the same as I refuse to make ONE DIME off of my expertise. I will always offer free autograph opinions and I will never charge Global Authentics or ebay for my services. It isn't about greed for me, it's about protecting the NASCAR drivers and the NASCAR autograph hobby.
Recently, I have had to remove countless Danica Patrick fakes that were each authenticated by one of the big two companies. This was one of those bulk deals where a customer with discount privledges was able to get bunches of bad Danicas "authenticated". This customer is a very valid dealer who happened to grab some Danica autographs and then used his discount to get them authenticated. These forgeries come out of Florida and have flooded the market for the past few years. The problem is that this authentication company does not have a NASCAR expert who is "boots on the ground" trackside each racing season collecting exemplars like I do. It takes a full-time concerted effort to keep up with the changes which is why one person can not be the end all expert for Racing, Hollywood, Music, Vintage, Golf, 4-sport, Entertainment, Etc. The constant variations and signing habits change too often for one person to do it, with the changes I see each year ( sometimes week-to-week) in NASCAR, I can't imagine what it's like in the other areas.
This very thing is why I am writing a Danica signature study for this site....because I too believe that this site and what Steve has created is the future of the hobby. This is a place where collectors and experts SHOULD come together and WORK hand-in-hand for FREE ( until the day comes when Steve will probably have to charge admission ) with nothing more to gain than knowledge and creating a protective shield for the community.
So, I don't have a lot to say other than I am trying to do what's best for my end of the hobby. Is it right for PSA or JSA to do the same? It's not for me to say. I just know that mistakes are out there from EVERY company. so, there is ALWAYS room for improvement.
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thanks for the update and look forward to the study. GAI has taken some incoming of late and it's tough for the collectors to figure out when it began and ended.
It's all about what people believe... and it's troubling when one thinks of the dealer who has a mass of somethings that they don't go thru the balance and checks. Resulting in nothing more than a rubber stamp.
on the psa/dna sticker update regarding a mantle ball I am not very enthused with the follow-up response;
The sticker and the certificate card or letter of authenticity must match and the item will be displayed on the website. If you have any questions you can always call Customer Service
If one is going to take the time to forge a sticker then it would seem to me they are going to go to the same extremes to forge the card or loa. Simply seeing the two together and as a result adding it to their certification database does not give me a warm comfortable feeling.
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Baisically, GAI is now de-funct. Global Authentics is the autograph service operated by Steve Sipe formerly of Upper Deck. ssipe@globalauthentics.com .... globalauthentics.com
If ANYONE has any old GAI coas that have the names , Mike Baker, Steve Rocchi, or Justin Priddy on them, they can email Steve to have the items re-checked.
While I don't know what happened with the other autographs and GAI coas. I know that they did refund lots of money to customers for NASCAR items that I found that were wrongly certified.
Global Authentics is NOT GAI. Global Authentics is also a very close partner with ebay as a preferred authenticator ( as has been noted on a previous link ).
Myself, I'm still pushing for the community to evolve in a manner which allows buyers to come to a site like this and continue getting FREE advice from a multitude of the TOP experts in EACH area of expertise.
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