Have professional in-person collectors ruined collecting for true fans?

What's your opinion on the in-person collectors that graph for the sake of selling them onwards. Has it stopped true fans from having their stars sign autographs for them? I'm just asking myself is it even a hobby anymore with all the fuss competing with people for autographs, it seem pretty chaotic with some of the footage you see, people trying to graph when artist are in their cars. In the 90's from what ive read it was fairly casual affair for ip collecting, even if you were to sell a few, your not the worst person in the world. I've purchased a few things of ip collectors, but not a great deal, I'm just saying I'm not any better than anyone else.

Any thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on October 13, 2016 at 3:53pm
I understand Robin, still the only 100% certainty is getting it yourself. Even Springsteen books are presigned (not that anyone is disputing it) and sadly some artists supply autopen signatures, but if they truly cared what the fans were getting they would make legitimate attempts instead of signing 50 pickguards for dealers.

I honestly think, the same with tabloid photos, some artists like the attention. Not all of them, but some want their value to be high. So they don't sign as much.
Permalink Reply by Robin McKay on October 13, 2016 at 4:09pm

Yep, just call me dubious, lol, I've been stung quite a few times which reminds me, I must get around to sorting the c**p that I have in my collection out. 

Permalink Reply by Robin McKay on October 13, 2016 at 3:30pm

If I sold anything, I'd sell it at the price it should be sold at. I'm not greedy like that, but I'm also not an IP dealer. I wish I was, sometimes.

Permalink Reply by Paul on October 13, 2016 at 3:57pm
I seen one add for the BS book, just pay a little more because your buying it from a trusted source.
Permalink Reply by Robin McKay on October 13, 2016 at 4:11pm

I don't mind buying in or around the price of what it should be - I mean, when you get a book signed, you're getting more than what you paid for it in the first place, in essence. 

For example, I don't know if you guys know the naturalist, David Attenborough, but the queue for his autograph in my home town was MASSIVE - I waited FOUR hours to get his autograph and almost missed out on it - but that was down, in my opinion, to poor organisation.

Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on October 12, 2016 at 7:34am

It is funny, for me I am always embarrassed to ask someone to "give" me their autograph.  I worked on a documentary Willie Nelson narrated (for free by the way) he sent the producer and myself tickets and backstage passes when he appeared in Elmira, New York. I was able to meet him and talk to him on his bus with no one else around.  He was one the most down to earth and genuinely nice people I have me.   I did get his photograph with me but did not even think about asking for his autograph. Jim Davis the star of Dallas was right behind me while boarding a plane in 1979 I think.  I recognized him from John Wayne movies!  He was dressed all in black with that shock of white hair, and carrying a red rose!  Again I did not ask for his autograph.  Now I have no problems at all going to conventions and buying autographs from celebrities. I have on occasion written to stars that I admired and gotten autographs in return. The only ones I asked for autographs for was back in the 1980s when I decided I wanted to collect all the Scottish Clan Chief's autographs.  A surprising number willingly sent me theirs I always included an international postage coupon for them.  I got a long handwritten letter from Brig. Simon Fraser Lord Lovat (played by Peter Lawford in The Longest Day).  Through the mail collectors are normally very respectful and most are genuine collectors though they may sell duplicates.  I have no problem with that at all. Now people that continually bother asking for autographs they already have just to get them for free to sell I do approve of.  I am much more comfortable in paying the person themselves.  I think there are in person dealers who are honest and courteous others are obnoxious and harmful to collecting.  I prefer having things signed with my full name if at all possible I could care less if it lessens the value.  For me collecting is personal and historical.  I am glad I started back in the 70s today I am not sure I would have the courage to begin with prices they way they are going and forgeries and "restorations" now showing up.  A different world entirely and not one I am terribly comfortable with.

Permalink Reply by william on October 12, 2016 at 8:10am

I personally don't sell mine although there some that are just in it for the purpose of making the Almighty Dollar$$$ this is all they care about.

My personal opinion I like to save mine I got Rod Stewart and Fats Domino and many others.

I am glad i keep mine its like an investment.

Permalink Reply by Nick Maas on October 12, 2016 at 9:01am

To answer the main question, I will say yes, it has ruined it for the true fans. Almost every time I go out and try to meet someone, everyone just assumes that you're selling. Security, band management, bystanders. Even if you seem like a fan, they still think you're a seller! 

I am always amazed when dealers wonder why celebrities no longer sign. When more dealers started coming out, people started signing less. Simple as that.

I am more than willing to debate this topic, as I know many dealers defend their work, and that's fine, but it is truly screwing it up for collectors and fans. No doubt.

Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on October 12, 2016 at 9:32am
I am mixed on this topic. In a perfect world autographs would hold no value, but sentimental value to the person that receives it. However it IS that sentimental value that motivates the financial side of the industry.

You have the authentication companies making money, millions a year, and you have the IP collectors out there making money from those who aren't out there doing it/ or they never get a chance due to living in a small market etc...

I have heard a ton of bad mouthing fans from IP dealers, because they get in the way...Whether it be because they are so excited to meet someone they truly care about...The dealers take this for granted, but are more than willing to make money off those same fans who are willing to buy an autograph because it holds a special meaning to them.

The basic photos and pick guards I think hold little value to me personally, are what the IP dealers bread and butter are. Cheap items to have signed to have higher margins when they sell. If I was an artist I would feel offended, at least on an LP the artist made some money off of it at some point.

Now this all being said, it is supply and demand. They are performing a service to those not doing it themselves, they are getting information, putting in the time and leg work. They aren't sitting around forging it (which I feel forgery and authentication industry are a much more profitable part of the industry)

To me, I only collect a few artists. Some I know I probably won't get a chance myself to get because ultimately those I care about are towards the end of their careers. I am fortunate enough to have met Brian Wilson who I paid to meet because I didn't want to risk not meeting him (even though I already had his autographs in my possession) meeting him, Al Jardine, and meeting Mike Love and Bruce Johnston are things I will never forget. Not everyone gets those experiences and luckily for those that want authentic pieces there are legit people obtaining them.

There is good and bad on the dealers, it definitely makes the artist turned off. It would be more beneficial to always see if there is a direct method to purchase straight from the artist, but otherwise I think there is a place for dealers. Except of course in situations where they won't let the fans get a chance (I.e purchasing Bruce Springsteen meet and greet book passes so quick that the fans couldn't get them and reselling those tickets for thousands) however I also feel the artists need to take accountability for making sure the fans are taken care of (via fan clubs)

Sorry if that was long winded, I just see it from both sides even though I am just a fan/collector.
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 12, 2016 at 9:53am

Good post! I rewrote the title.

Permalink Reply by Gregory S on October 12, 2016 at 10:12am

Great post!   Being in fly over country, I'll admit to buying from IP dealers. (although I research graphs extensively before doing so)

However...

I've watched videos of even lesser known C and D list celebs be rudely mobbed and I cannot blame celebs one bit if they refuse to sign - as long as they do not take out their frustrations on the people.

Permalink Reply by william on October 12, 2016 at 1:18pm

It;s a matter of opnion so do it for $$$ othrs do it for fun and memories.

I say they do it for the $$

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