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Autographs and authenticity

I'm looking to get some opinions on this.  My grandparents ran an auction barn and antique store in the 50s-80s.  When they passed, my father kept some of the cool stuff, which included cut signatures from sports figures like Ruth, Gehrig, etc.  Nothing was authenticated.  He passed away last year and I now own them.  In doing my research on authentication, I believe this industry is almost counter-productive.  Here's why:


1) My father got three or four of them authenticated.  He went to some of the lesser known companies because he was, well, cheap.  They came back authentic.  These are companies on the banned Ebay list and that have been run down on here.  After doing my research, I've come to the conclusion I'm better off selling them as is with the authentication I have then to spend more money to have JSA or PSA authenticate them too, or, in the worst case scenario, have them found to be fake.


2)  I own a ton of autographs, some I know are real because of in-person signings and such, others that are questionable.  Why would I want to spend $200 to have a Ruth autograph looked at?  If it comes back a fake, I'm out $200.  I could sell it now as is and make money, without anyone ever knowing if it's real or fake until someone pays to have it authenticated themselves. 

It seems to me that if the industry wanted to get rid of fakes, it would offer cheaper fees if the item comes up fake.  And with JSA and PSA also known to have made mistakes in the past, who says either one is even right when they make a decision on my items.  Again, I'm posting this not because I want to rip someone off.  I want to understand why in the world it makes sense for me to risk paying $2,000 to get 20 autographs looked at when they could all be fake and I'm out $2,000?  All I'd have to do is put them up on Craigslist for sale, or a local auction, and make money  and move on. 

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on August 9, 2012 at 10:24am

Look..between Myself...Zipper...Terrier...and Williams you can get solid free advice...either way...non of us are authenticators...if you found out they where bad you may have well just have the same mentality saying...well these guys are not certified authenticators...who cares what they say...I am certain between all four of us we have a combined 100 years collecting experience...the choice is yours...

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 8, 2012 at 5:48pm

Agreed. You can't wish someone a conscience. 

Permalink Reply by Darrin Willhite on August 8, 2012 at 5:59pm

Again, you asked me to post some pics, so I did.  You tell me what you think of the two I posted. 

Permalink Reply by Darrin Willhite on August 8, 2012 at 5:53pm

No, I'm trying to hold a rash conversation.  I want advice.  I didn't come here to be judged because I may or may not sell them as-is.  Hundreds of auction houses do it every day.  I don't think they are immoral because of that.  I'm looking for help.  Steve said I should put some on.  So I put a couple on for conversation purposes.  In the above, from my research, I believe one is fake and one is real.  The fake one comes from a "bad" authenticator with a name, the other comes from one I've never heard of before.  That is the point I'm trying to make.  But maybe someone here could add something.  For example, am I a bad person for selling each of these when they both say they are authentic from a 3rd party even though said third party is not JSA or PSA and therefore, allegedly, cannot be trusted?  That's all I'm asking.

Permalink Reply by DB on August 8, 2012 at 5:47pm

A very real and interesting conundrum!

to avert cost, open an ebay account under an assumed name - post it with some rediculous price while paying the listing fee (to prevent it from being sold) then submit it to PSA for a quick opinion.  Cost $7.95. 

Then you get to make an informed decision as one can make on a QO.  When it comes to certain types like Ruth they have a good track record from all I've read..

Permalink Reply by Darrin Willhite on August 8, 2012 at 5:52pm

Again, a rash and sensible response.  Wow, there are people on here who can actually hold a conversation without judging someone they've never met before.  Thanks for the help!

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on August 8, 2012 at 6:05pm

Darrin, no one here is judging you, but we (I) can only respond based on your initial post.  I read that post twice and interpreted is as meaning you were looking to sell them whether they were authentic or forgeries.  And then you change course in mid-stream.

Permalink Reply by Darrin Willhite on August 8, 2012 at 6:08pm

Okay, well, I apologize if my initial post was confusing.  As I said, my main question and concern is spending a ton of money.  If none of them are authentic, and I literally am only guessing whether I think they are or not, then I could be out a lot of money.  It seems you and several people on here obviously dislike people who knowingly sell fakes.  I get that.  But there's nothing in it for people to get them authenticated if it COSTS them find out they're fake.  Who wants to do that?  That's my point. Are there alternatives?

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on August 8, 2012 at 6:11pm

So what you're writing is that the professionals who do this for a living, shouldn't be paid if the autograph is a forgery?  Is that what you are saying, Darrin?  I certainly hope not.

Permalink Reply by Darrin Willhite on August 8, 2012 at 6:20pm

NO, what I'm saying is this--when you grade cards through Beckett for example, you pay more for the time it takes to grade them, not the price of the card.  You pay the same whether it comes back a 1 or a 10, but the card is still worth something.  With autos, you pay $200 if it's a Ruth, whether it's fake or not.  Seems to me a better business model to add integrity to the industry would be to either make the fees based on time of authentication or based on whether it's real or not.  IF it's real you pay $200.  If it's not, you pay $50.  Just my opinion.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on August 8, 2012 at 6:28pm

So if an authenticator (not the clowns) spends two hours on a Babe Ruth autograph he should receive a smaller fee because it's a forgery?  Seriously?

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on August 8, 2012 at 6:48pm
This has been discussed many times before. You can't charge less for a forgery because that creates a scenario where there is an appearance of an incentive for a company to pass an item as authentic.

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