Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike T on January 8, 2016 at 6:51am

That's not true, buyers can leave feedback at any time unless there is an unpaid item claim filed against them.

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Permalink Reply by Terry G. on January 10, 2016 at 12:54am

It's not illegal. It's not breaking ebays terms. The seller has acted in good faith by refunding the buyer completely- the buyer is whole again. This is a different scenario than someone who takes the money and runs. The seller completed his obligation under eBays rules- the buyer was not satisfied, so the refund was given. The deal was on the UK version of eBay so no U.S. laws could be broken. 

You seem to think the seller should be crucified for selling this item. I think that until we know the entire set of circumstances, judgement is premature- or as it says in U.S. law "innocent until proven guilty", lol. 

 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 8, 2016 at 7:01am

Terry G,

Your logic evades me. What is seller feedback for if not to give potential buyers an idea of how reliable the seller is?

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Permalink Reply by Terry G. on January 10, 2016 at 1:14am

What is your definition of reliable? A seller who sells a pretty expensive item, then is told by the buyer it is not as described, and acts by refunding the buyer in full seems to be operating fairly honestly, IMO. You guys are just so used to attacking eBay sellers, you are numb to the possibility that a mistake was made. The buyer has been made whole- so no "crime" exists. If he lists it again on eBay, with knowledge that it is  a fake, then I think you can make the case that he was intending to defraud. I don't know where he got the poster- did he "personally obtain it" as in the item description, or did he buy it from a guy who told him HE got it signed, and for lack of  a better descriptive dropdown, chose the one he did. I don't know, neither do you. 

How do you use feedback, Steve? Do you look at it to determine reliability? What is the endpoint where you determine reliability is bad for any given seller? 1 negative? 2? 8? A dozen? I've sold on ebay for a very long time, and I have received negative feedbacks and I've never acted in bad faith in any of my transactions- the buyers were simply quick to the trigger to slam me before I had a chance in some cases to make the situation right. For example, I mailed out the wrong CD to a buyer- an original CD instead of the remaster (I had both for sale at the same time and they ended same day). Buyer was upset, messaged me and then left negative feedback calling me a scam artist. I refunded all her money including shipping, told her to keep CD and she refused to alter the feedback. Was it warranted? IMO, no, she acted hastily. Did that negative feedback now mean I am not a reliable seller? Do you think the thousands of positive feedbacks mean anything? Not really- people tend to look at the bad before the good, and it might have cost me some sales, I'll never know.

In this case, the seller did the right thing- most crooks with intent to defraud would never refund in full. That tells me something about the seller. All I'm trying to say is that you are too quick to judge because of your almost nonstop war with forgeries on eBay and the sellers of those items. The constant exposure to all these fakes has tainted common sense around here. People makes mistakes, and this seller clearly admitted it and acted responsible, as he should.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on January 8, 2016 at 7:01am

Maybe it's on a disputed process. I really haven't dealt with that except when I receive something I want to return. But, I would not slam a seller if they return the funds to me without a fight. I know mine is not the popular opinion but I believe the buyer has a responsibility to take proper precautions. I do believe that knowledgeable people should contact ebay with their concerns on forgeries, for the little is seems have any effect. I do not like forgers and believe they should be banned and charged with a crime, but that doesn't appear to be a top priority for law enforcement. How long does it take for potential buyers to do a google search, find this site, and ask for some opinions? 5 minutes? 10 minutes?

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on January 8, 2016 at 7:15am

Takes even less to look at their eBay feedback when they are looking to buy something. There is zero reason to not leave negative feedback in this instance. The seller defrauded the buyer and will continue to defraud many other buyers who may never be smart enough to get their money back.

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Permalink Reply by Terry G. on January 10, 2016 at 1:21am

There is no fraud once the buyer has been reimbursed. You have no way of knowing what the seller will do in the future and stating that you do is just hyperbole. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 10, 2016 at 8:01am

There is no fraud once the buyer has been reimbursed? So as long as you give a customer their money back when you're caught you didn't do anything wrong?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 8, 2016 at 7:39am

Most people don't realize that eBay isn't a safe place to buy things. Just like they don't realize that most autograph galleries mostly sell forgeries. I don't blame the customer for not doing research, because unless you know the autograph field you'd have a hard time imagining how easy it is to commit fraud for years and never get arrested for it.

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Permalink Reply by Terry G. on January 10, 2016 at 1:28am

Sorry, but it's 2016- any buyer of anything has to be responsible enough to investigate their purchases beforehand. Anyone who buys a high-end or expensive item without researching it first is either lazy or stupid- it is incredibly easy to find information on practically anything these days. Nobody gets a pass on being responsible for their own purchases, IMO. Using your logic, I should go buy a used car and take the salesman's story that it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to and from church as gospel. No need to carfax it, no need to have a mechanic look at it, no need to test drive it, it's fine, right? You're so tough on sellers but easy on buyers when in reality, shouldn't they be equally responsible for the transaction- the seller must sell a quality product if he advertises that, and the buyer must have an understanding of what quality is. The only way the dumb get smarter is to LEARN.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on January 10, 2016 at 4:10am

Terry your logic is so backwards I don't even know what to say. While I agree with you that buyers should do their research, owness is on the seller (and everyone else in the country) to not do anything illegal and/or defraud anyone. If a seller sells a forgery, that is fraud. Committing fraud is breaking ebays terms and the law. If they use the postal service to commit that fraud, they are breaking a federal law. Just because they say their sorry or refund the buyer after they get caught does not mean that all goes away... That's simply now how the law works.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on January 10, 2016 at 4:15am

I agree. There are three parties in this situation that have erred. Ebay should, at minimum, try to weed out sellers that consistently sell forgeries. They have some accountability to protect the buyer. The seller has a responsibility to, at minimum, try to make sure what they offer for sale is genuine. That's good business. At least, they did refund the money. And the buyer has a responsibility to handle their money diligently. Information about fakes and forgeries have been well documented on all forms of media. All three parties are guilty...guilty...guilty. But, in this case, the buyer did request a refund and the seller honored that request. This ended better than most cases.

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