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Willie Mays Dispute between Topps and Beckett

Hi All,

I'm posting this for a friend. I'm perplexed, as is he. He purchased this Topps signed Willie Mays card from Pristine Auctions. The card states the signature was witnessed by a Topps representative. My friend sent the card to Beckett and asked that they grade it. Beckett emailed this morning to tell him they couldn't because they can't verify the authenticity of the autograph.

My mind immediately went to the card being a forgery...but the fact it has the silver foiling, and that Pristine had it in their hands and didn't question it, gives me pause.

Any thoughts here? My friend emailed Beckett to ask more questions but has yet to hear back. It seems to me that there is a dispute between Beckett and Topps. Beckett charged his $85 for the rejection.

Thanks all!

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Permalink Reply by BC on January 14, 2024 at 1:42am

The card in question is 100% fake.

Christopher Williams has pointed out in the blog section, that this Topps card has been forged in the past, along with many others, and contacted Beckett over it. PSA and others have slabbed the cards and have been duped in the past.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/profiles/blogs/willie-mays-2003-...

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Sloss on January 14, 2024 at 4:35am

Wow. I erased that as a possibility (before all the feedback yesterday) given that 1) I thought the foiling (the very thing that proves it is a fake lol) would be difficult to pull off and 2) It came out of Pristine where it would have been checked (especially as an unslabbed card). I was wrong in both those assumptions.

Another thing that could have prevented this, if Topps is going to go through the trouble of placing a hologram on a card, keep a database where one can actually see it. Instead, it's just a useless sticker. I googled where to authenticate and found stories of people reaching lowly employees within Topps who said, "There probably was a database somewhere" :(

Thank you all. I will be passing this info on.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 14, 2024 at 5:10am

You can buy numbered holographic stickers and custom stickers all over the internet.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Sloss on January 14, 2024 at 5:24am

Yeah. Mine was more of a comment of how topps could prevent it...have a place where the cards Topps hologramed can be viewed. If that existed, one could either see there actually was no such hologram number, or could compare the physical card (and signature) to the one in Topps database.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 14, 2024 at 5:34am

Even PSA doesn't update or correct their database. It has its share of known secretarials and forgeries. Look up some cert numbers/stickers and it still says "authentic". Would Topps do more?

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Sloss on January 14, 2024 at 6:13am

Would be nice if Topps even did that. They don't allow the hologram # to be searched anywhere.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 14, 2024 at 6:59am

Kind of makes me think of these loose little things from the past...self authenticating but fake...

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Sloss on January 14, 2024 at 7:11am

Would make more sense if topps just stuck a sticker like that on it. When they add a #, it makes one think there is record of it somewhere. According to Google searches from people who contacted Topps with such a question, there isn't. So, not sure why they even bothered with a numbering system. Who knows? But thanks to all for your valuable input.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 14, 2024 at 7:29am

No problem - see latest post re Obverse fonts. The sticker shown above is no longer used as it was easily copied and stuck to anything.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on January 14, 2024 at 5:01am

As BC has already noted, I have been posting blogs on the various forged counterfeit cards for the past five years.

The "Willie Mays" posted by Ryan is a forged counterfeit card.

On the bottom right of the card where it reads "Autograph Issue" none of the letters should be touching each other, and as you can clearly see on Ryan's card that is not the case. The autograph itself is a horrid-looking forgery.

Ryan, you should return it, demand a refund of your purchase price and insist that Pristine pay you the $85.00 that you paid Beckett.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Sloss on January 14, 2024 at 5:27am

Thank you CJ. I sent the link to your blog to my friend and told him he should probably share with Pristine as well. I think they would benefit greatly from your extensive work. Much appreciated!