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What exactly is this eBay seller doing? Is this considered counterfeiting?

I suggest you review the items for sale by an eBay seller named: presidentialcollectibles

It appears that this seller is using a new 2012 autopen machine and is counterfeiting, ( if that is the correct term?), celebrity autographs. The seller's description states that, "These signatures cannot be found anywhere else", so it is unclear if anyone else is also currently using this autopen device. Thus far, one can purchase a Neil Armstrong, John Lennon, Marilyn Monroe, Bruce Lee, Babe Ruth, or Elvis Presley autopenned ink signature, and according to the seller "provides high quality signature which is an exact replica of the original".

For obvious reasons, I find this 'new autopen machine' quite troubling. Aside from the potential influx of confounding new autotypes, does creating these autotypes represent an issue in intellectual property law? I am not a lawyer, but..................

Should the profits of sales of the 'new autopenned' signatures belong to the estate of the signators?

Examples:

Tags: al capone, autopen, babe ruth, counterfeit, elvis presley, forgeries, machine-signed, marilyn monroe, mike tyson, neil armstrong, More…obama

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Comment by DB on September 18, 2012 at 3:24pm: Mike, with my strict interpretation it would as it is not being done by the artist or the artist's authorized representative but I don't get a vote, perse. However "fake autographs" must also have some obvious gray area and interpretations at the moment -vs- the "operation bullpen" types. Many of EBAY's policies have this problem by their very nature.

The CMG Marketing http://www.cmgworldwide.com/corporate/clients.html would be the responsible entity to identify if any copyrights or licensing violations have occured as Richard has point out. If there are then those listings would be in violation.

Comment by Mike Shepherd on September 18, 2012 at 3:31pm: I'm with you DB. An autograph is either real or it is fake. There is no compromise.

Comment by BallroomDays67 on September 18, 2012 at 4:16pm: eBay does have a category for "Autographs-Reprints" (under Entertainment Memorabilia). Wouldn't an autopen technically be considered a reprint? It's an automated reprinting of an authentic autograph.

Comment by terrier8HOF on September 18, 2012 at 4:23pm: there are far too many reprints on ebay that are not represented as such in the titles, in fact, sometimes you really have to read the fine print to determine this. It should be clearly stated in the title so there is no deception. it is merely semantics, what we decide to call a fake. in my opinion, a "fake" is something intended to deceive someone. of course, forgeries would fall in this category, as well as reprints or autopens if they are not represented as such. but if they are indeed presented as they truly are, I would not consider them fake. they are just copies.

Comment by Bill Panagopulos on September 18, 2012 at 7:57pm: Doc -

Richard Simon said it best (and as I put it to you privately) - the signatures and photographic images of these individuals reside with their estates. You can use George Washington's signature to sell used cars these days because he has no heirs, per se. But...the estates of Marilyn Monroe, John Lennon, etc, are very jealously guarded and no doubt this scumbag will soon find himself in hot water for having usurped them.

What a useless bum to dare charge $175 for an autopen-signed image. IMO he's hoping people will buy them for resale. Last seen during the Cretaceous Period.

Comment by roger epperson on September 19, 2012 at 8:20am: Reprints are totally different then autopens. Reprints do not show any kind of pen pressure or ink overlapping. They are very easy to spot in most cases but an autopen has the flow and pressure of an actual autograph thus making it much harder for the average collector to detect. I'm sorry but this is just plain wrong.

Comment by Carole Sampeck on September 28, 2012 at 8:54am: I spent many years as a member of the UACC Ethics Board. During that time, I learned that these bad pieces develop a life of their own. Autopens are just as fake as secretarials. The celebrity did not hand-sign. What I don't get is the prices for these autopen signatures...ridiculous. Plus, using a Sharpie for Marilyn Monroe shows a lack of forethought!

Comment by Steve Zarelli on September 28, 2012 at 9:15am: I have learned that bad autographs almost never go away. They continue to circulate like a hot potato.

I can't tell you how many times I have reviewed something for someone privately and told them it was bad, and then later seen it at RR and rejected it and later reviewed it for JSA or someone else and rejected it again. I have seen some pieces circulating for over a DECADE. And I am not talking about tweeners that reasonable people might disagree on.... I'm talking about items that are 100% lousy, no-doubt clunkers.

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 28, 2012 at 9:37am: Maybe this seller took our comments to heart and decided to do the right thing.

Since we found out about him he finished up what he had on ebay and has not posted an autopen signature since. Hopefully, this trend will continue.