Renewing Interest

Hello, everyone!

I am considering adding a few Mickey Mantle items to a corner of our game room. Yeah, I guess it's a sort of shrine. I have two signed items and would like to add more.

I've been reading with interest several of the posts here. There are HUNDREDS of pages on Mantle! What is troublesome is that most of what I see is not information that can be put to use.

Now, admittedly, I could be looking in the wrong places. Perhaps there is information here on how an amateur can spot fakes. So far, however, all I've been seeing are comments like, "fake," "amateurish," "forgery," "terrible," and the worst word: "obvious." No, nothing is obvious to the untrained eye.

My current two items are not authenticated. They don't need to be. They were both signed in front of me. I'm not looking at them as a commodity. They simply represent a chunk of my life and make me feel good. If I were to send them out to an authentication outfit, there's a chance they would be deemed forgeries. That would sort of justify my lack of faith in authentication, of course, but I would only be proving it to myself. Not much point to that.

Could someone lead me in the right direction? Is there an article posted here or elsewhere that tells us what to look for? In the signature, I mean. Not the certificate. That "proof" doesn't really interest me. Most of what I see looks real to me. Probably 90% of the photos posted here look fine and yet you folks consistently say they are no good. What are you seeing that I'm not?

I have not searched through all of the Mantle pages here. As I said, there are hundreds. Is there a way to narrow things down to what is truly informative, rather than one-or-two-word evaluations?

Thank you for considering my questions. Best wishes for continued success in the autograph business.

-MJ

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on July 8, 2017 at 10:58am

Here is a blog post I did in 2012. In short...there are no shortcuts. It requires seeing a lot of examples over time, side-by-side comparisons, and recognizing when something "doesn't look natural." Common fakes often have a cookie cutter look... the forger learns to sign a certain way and every fake from that forger looks like a nearly identical copy of each other... no natural variation. Once you know the "look" of a forger, their work is obvious; you can tell where certain fakes originated from.

I hope this helps.

How to tell authentic autographs from fakes

Very often you'll see a collector ask something along the lines of, "How can I tell a real [fill-in-the-blank] autograph from fakes?" It seems as though the person expects to receive an answer such as, "If the third stroke of the M is more than 1.5 inches long, it's fake."

Of course, it is not that simple. There are no shortcuts or magic tells. Most anyone can identify grossly malformed fakes. But to be really good and identify the relatively deceptive fakes, you need to train your eyes to recognize the proper look and feel. And this is not something that can be accomplished overnight. In other words, it requires work and dedication.

So, how do you "train your eye"?

Look at hundreds of authentic exemplars. Look at them every day for a long time. And make sure you are using verified authentic exemplars!
Do side-by-side comparisons with known fakes.
Don't focus solely on "shape." Look at speed and pressure and other subtle characteristics. Good forgers can closely replicate "shape," but it's much more difficult to replicate the subtle characteristics.
Look for a loose, relaxed hand that intuitively and instinctively signed versus a tight hand "drawing" the signature with too much "thinking."
Network with experienced collectors and dealers to compare notes and ask questions.

Follow these steps and eventually the signature will "click," and you will see the difference between authentic and good fakes.

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Permalink Reply by MJ Emigh on July 8, 2017 at 12:25pm

Steve-

Thank you very much. There is certainly a lot of good information there.

Most of what you said in that post is logic and common sense. I can see, however, that those two things aren't always used. I see hundreds of posts by people asking "Is this real?" Likely, a little effort would eliminate the need for that time-wasting question.

You mention that there is a need to look at many, many examples of authentic signatures. I'm sure that is true. I see a problem there in that it has become apparent that those are rare. A Google search for signatures will turn up real ones mixed with fakes. An auction site may turn up more fakes than real ones. There just isn't much material to work with.

Of course, the two that I have can be used, but they are not exactly alike. One was done after a TV gig. Although we tried to cover it, it was obvious that Mick wasn't drinking iced tea. The signature is ALMOST what you would expect, but a little flattened out. In fact, I've seen some on eBay that look much like it but would probably be thought forgeries. There's a good chance they aren't.

Are you aware of any articles like yours that are specific to Mantle? Someone has likely dedicated many hours to that very narrow study. I hope that person wrote about it somewhere.

Thank you again for forwarding that article! I've saved it and will be rereading it several times in this quest.

-MJ

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on July 8, 2017 at 12:55pm

TPAs are not perfect, but in my view, PSA, JSA and Beckett are going to get Mantle right 98% of the time. This is their wheelhouse. Study examples approved by these three to see the many natural variations and the "feel" of authentic Mantles. Signed quickly and loosely with a "natural look." Save a bunch to a folder and then cruise through the folder familiarizing yourself with the look.

Next, search ebay for completed auctions of Mantles that sold for under $100 and approved by so-called "forensic" authenticators. In the majority of cases, these will be mass produced fakes; cookie cutter, machine signed and/or slow and wobbly. Note how they look tight and stiff. You can't see it on one, but save them to a folder and cruise through the images using photo viewer. You will start to be able to identify the "look."

We tried to host some threads of all authentic examples, but the problem is people always chime and and start posting fakes, etc. It does make if difficult to train your eye when you are looking at a mixed bag. You can also check PSA Autograph Facts for good examples.