Authenticity is Everything
Gettysburg Museum of History WW2 Autographs: Himmler, Hess
I recently discovered this online store, and have become interested in much of its inventory. From time to time, they will have an interesting autograph for sale, and they currently have been posting items from WW2. Does anyone have an opinion on this supposed dual-signed photo of Himmler and Hess? As always, thank you to everyone who responds for your invaluable insights.
Chris
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by MikeEarmantraut on
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Still waiting for someone to comment on authenticity lol, as evil as they were, this is still a cool piece in my opinion and and something different from what's frequently posted here.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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I completely agree, and I'm hoping for some confirmation about its authenticity, as well. It would greatly elevate my trust in the rest of this store's inventory. They sell relics and autographs from various points in history, despite being located in Gettysburg. They rely on their own reputation to claim authenticity, but when it comes to higher-dollar pieces like this, I wish they'd also have a reputable third party confirm it, too.
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Permalink Reply by eddy To Chris on
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Chris -
What you say about them seeming to rely on their own reputation to claim authenticity is a good point. Their inventory looks amazing, though.
If you are considering this, I'd run it by someone who specializes in this kind of material. I'd recommend Rick Schnake at History In Ink. He's a PADA member and is tops in what he does, imo.
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I'll definitely do that, thank you. Is he someone that gives his opinion on authenticity, as people in this forum do? I have an ancillary concern that someone in the business of selling autographs who is knowledgeable about it being genuine, when shown it, will buy it out from under me before giving their opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin To Chris on
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I’ve never studied Nazi autographs so I’m not qualified to give an opinion. Bill Panagopulos from Alexander autographs is quite good at Nazi material.
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Chris -
My experience of Rick Schnake has been very positive and he has been most generous in sharing thoughts on material that he is asked about. He's assisted me on multiple occasions.
He's a total professional. I would never believe he would be one to snatch something up when someone is sincerely considering it and is seeking guidance. I do understand that concern, though.
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I have no expertise on the signatures.
I have no experience of the seller - they sound like they would be a learned and prestigious outfit by name alone. And yet, their description of the item reads more like an over-enthusiastic and amateur ebayer:
"It is about 3″/5″ The photo Appears to have been previously glued inside of an album. Duel signed photos are VERY RARE! Good condition with some slight silver on the side showing this is a true original photograph. This is an investment quality autograph and with prices skyrocketing this is a rare opportunity."
This is not a learned institution - i.m.o.
The questions I would have are:
- what kind of ink is the Hess written with? It doesn't look like a fountain pen has been used. It looks more like a sharpie. The Himmler is less clear - difficult to say but to my knowledge sharpies were not in use in wartime Germany.
- when was this signed by Hess? Was he really allowed to sign memorabilia from Spandau...that would seem very odd but it's possible, I suppose.
Neither signature appears to have faded - over 70 years if you presume that the Hess was not added at a later date.
Lastly, the pricing shows a complete lack of awareness of the monetary value of such an item - were it authentic, with cast-iron provenance, you would be looking at well in excess of 10k for such a thing. Sadly, there are way too many people (for whom money is no object ) who would kill to obtain such a ghastly item and place it on their mantelpiece.
My advice would be not to touch it. Your descendents will be grateful.
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I second this, I wouldn't purchase it now hearing Findbooks comment, they make a lot of sense. I'd wait for another one to pop up that is authenticated or looks good to people here.
If it was real I think it'd be sold already but that's just my opinion.
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Some good points above.
The description has spelling errors ("duel" instead of "dual") and lots of hyperbole.
Hess was out of the war very early on and went from the Tower of London to Spandau Prison with perhaps a stop-over in Nuremberg. He had little opportunity to sign anything once his initial incarceration began.
I'm a little bothered by the lack of a good straight on photo of the piece. There is a uneven swath of white at the bottom - is that part of the photo, or a shot of the photo at an angle? 🤔
Also, in some of the photos it appears black and white while in others it appears sepia. They should be showing only true images to reflect the actual look of the item.
Such an item would be incredibly rare, and I would suspect more valuable than the asking price. But don't let any of that sway you into overlooking issues that must be settled first.
I don't necessarily doubt the overall veracity of the seller's listings, but I might be a little apprehensive about their judgement on this particular item.
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I appreciate and enjoy everyone's comments here, and I have similar misgivings about the item, as well. I may try making inquiries with the other people mentioned above, but my interest in this piece's authenticity was as more of a barometer for the overall inventory. I have no reason in hand to doubt the seller, and if nothing else, I would certainly expect the Gettysburg relics to be genuine. I also am somewhat off-put by the excited sales pitch, but I am willing to chalk that up to one being excited about what they possess, as I'm sure we all can relate to with our own collections. Indeed, my biggest concern is the lack of other verification and provenance for this. We all have egos that we strive to protect, but if you're looking to sell such a rare and unique piece of dark history, would you not want another trusted source to verify it? That extra step, though a momentary delay, can be worth many thousands. Thank you all for looking at it; I know this isn't the typical authenticity request for here.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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I would most likely avoid this for many of the reasons stated by Findbooks. At any rate, you only have 10 days to make a return so take care what you do.
I did see this:
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