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Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites

 It is unquestionable that Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, and Joe DiMaggio have been American sports icons since the mid-20th century. It comes as no surprise that these three have been favorites of autograph collectors since the advent of autograph and card shows in the 1980’s. Unfortunately it is equally unsurprising, as attested to in the FBI’s famous 1990s Operation Bullpen, that they are also the three most forged sports autographs. Although most experts believe the forgery problem in sports memorabilia has lessoned tremendously since Operation Bullpen (estimated at that time to be “between $500,000,000 and $900,000,000” by the FBI), sadly large numbers of forged material still exist.

While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.


Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:



 

As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.

In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.

In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.

In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.

Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.

Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.

Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…mantle, mickey, of, ted, williams

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 30, 2012 at 11:24pm

Everyone:

Mike Frost is doing very important work here that could save collectors millions of dollars a year. Please discuss these autographs with Mike, and presuming you agree that they are forgeries, spread the word and show collectors, sellers and eBay EMRs what to look out for. Expose the forgeries and those who knowingly sell and authenticate them. 

Mike, as expected, you're taking a lot of heat for this. You have gratitude. 

Steve

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 31, 2012 at 4:09am
They seem to be football, basketball and hockey at this point. Not signatures I am familiar with.

But there are certainly suspect patterns. Foreign sellers with only American stars. Same names over and over again. All signatures perfect sitting down "neat." Signed in best spot on photo. Where are the messy ones in the dark area?

Keep up the good work, Mike and don't let scummy, anonymous haters get you down.
Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 31, 2012 at 12:27pm

EBAY SELLER: KRAMMAN78

Has a Mickey Mantle and Tiger Woods autographed photos with a BUY IT NOW for $29.99. No doubt he has been told these are forgeries. Nobody who thinks they have authentic signatures would sell them at this price. Anything to rip somebody off. WOW.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Autographed-8x10-/29083824207...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Woods-Autograph-With-COA-On-8x10-Phot...

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 31, 2012 at 1:28pm

 the Mantle has the AAU sticker of inauthenticity

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 31, 2012 at 6:06pm
And they are gone. Drew Max strikes out again.
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 31, 2012 at 1:43pm

Mike,

Please start a new discussion for your pieces unrelated to Mantle/Williams/DiMaggio. I know you asked me to, but you need to do it because you have the examples and know the story.

Thanks

Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on December 31, 2012 at 11:01pm
Wishing a Happy and Healthy 2013 to all.
Steve,  I  will begin a new discussion based upon the autograph photos in question coming out of Taiwan, China, Thailand, and Japan. These signed photographs are selling anywhere from $30- $80 each with free shipping. Many of these questionable signed photos have stickers from 3rd party authentication companies. These sellers specialize in Sports autographs mainly Football, Hockey, Basketball, Tennis and Baseball (During the season) .  
There are 13 sellers that I have been monitoring all selling the same material, images and signatures.
I had posted 3 of the sellers names with links yesterday and as I was afraid of, today all 3 sellers removed a large part of their inventory. At this time it looks as if they have only left up the signed photos that have authentication stickers on them.
The problem is that these sellers change names and locations and are difficult to follow being that they are not located in the United States.
The Sellers in question obviously read and follow AML, or they are in contact with someone that reads AML because they are now aware of my reports and investigation. I have already been receiving attacking e-mails and phone calls and I am sure there will be many additional attacks. This is a major problem that deals not only with forgeries but autograph authentication and auction and dealer websites that have been offering these products as authentic. It is much larger then most will ever believe and I will show examples of these products in the near future. There is also a link with many non authentic modern celebrity signed photos being produced and sold here in the US but I am still working on those submissions.
 
 
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 31, 2012 at 11:07pm

Mike,

Thanks. I think your reply would be part of a good start to the new discussion. Why don't you start it tonight right here: http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/categories/sports-autograph...

Happy New Year one and all.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on January 1, 2013 at 8:47am

Another typical Mickey Mantle forgery.

This Mickey Mantle forgery is listed by EBay seller jrojunk.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKEY-MANTLE-AUTOGRAPHED-BASEBALL-BOBBY-BR...

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on January 2, 2013 at 4:08am

Here's another typical and obvious Mickey Mantle forgery.

This Mickey Mantle forgery is listed by Ebay seller playitagain-entertainment.

Click on the fourth image to get a closer view of the item description and read the seller's blatant lie about this Mantle signature (forgery).

 

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on January 5, 2013 at 3:36am

Another typical set of Mickey Mantle/Ted Williams forgeries on a photo.

This set of Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams forgeries is listed by EBay seller "kennyjay33."

This is the usual crap that has come out of Florida for the past few years.  This crap usually has COAs from Autographed Legends, LLC, YMC Spots, MFP Reborn, Myst-O-Graph, Chris Morales and others.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKEY-MANTLE-TED-WILLIAMS-AUTOGRAPHED-AUTO...

 

Click on the images to get a closer view.

 

Permalink Reply by David Readmond on January 8, 2013 at 9:21pm

hello, everybody.  my name is dave readmond and i live in lonsdale, minnesota.  i sell items on ebay under the username 'kennyjay33.'  i am the one who listed this mantle/williams auto, or, forgery as i have learned.  i have a rating of 745 with 100% positive feedback and have never come close to receiving negative feedback.  i came across this mantle/williams along with 3 other "autographed" photos recently.  i googled the authenticators of these pieces.  one of the authenticators told me it was a forgery so i did not list that one.  2 others had a different authenticating company and research told me that company was sketchy so i didn't list those.  i googled autographed legends llc and did not find anything warning me of their history.  perhaps i just missed it.  i then checked out ebay's list of banned authenticators and they are not on there so i listed this piece.  i have been collecting baseball items my whole life (i'm 40) but have not done much with autographs for this very reason.  this has been a learning experience for me but have found my name and reputation on this site.  don't get me wrong, i am not calling out this website by any means.  this is a great site and i will be using it for reference in the future.  i currently have some autographs listed on ebay that expire in about 15 hours or so but i gurarantee these autos came from a different source than this mantle/williams came from.

thank you and take care,

dave

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