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Maybe it’s different over there but in the uk small claims court exists exactly for this kind of dispute and it doesn’t matter how big the defending company is. 

This is $600,000 worth of fraud and we shouldn’t really lose sight of that. That’s not nothing on the balance sheet even for S&S.

This would also likely mean that Dylan himself would need to testify in court about his signatures. I cannot see this happen, this will be settled outside court or even before that if finally they come to their senses...the autopens are so obvious, even to an amateur. 

MG, indeed extremely unlikely…also this can’t have been done without a contract between S&S and Dylan’s company so he would have to testify against his own organisation, which has shared posts on twitter and facebook that these are personally signed copies.

Good point, but  S&S could have getten these books from the Dylan camp so they could deny any responsibility. I can’t imagine they created these autopen trash themselves, and Indigo did the same. 
Things like this will not proceed without contracts so the Dylan camp is involved (as shown by Dylan’s Twitter and Facebook posts).

Yes I suspect the breach of contract in reality is in the Dylan camp who will have agreed to provide x hand signed pages to be bound in and are presumably now about to have a difficult conversation with S&S.

Exactly, it seems almost everyone here is blaming the bookseller which is understandable because we are Dylan fans and can’t believe “he is a Judas” but we don’t know what was in the contract. The fact that two very big book sellers are involved makes it more likely that these copies came from Dylan’s organisation. I don’t believe that S&S and Indigo deliberately faked Dylan signatures. They only sold what was handed to them.

No matter what really happened, S&S is the responsible party.

As D2C seller they are responsible for the claims they make on the sale page - if it's not as advertised, we should get our money back.

As publisher they carry that same responsibility. They add the Letter of Authenticity, they set the $599 MSRP for the signed edition based on the authenticity. They bound the signed pages into the book. If they blindly trust their authors to provide authentic signatures then that's on them.

I wouldn't hold it against S&S to have used the autopen themselves.

They are not responsible if Dylan provided them with these books or “signed” pages, nor if they have this deal written down in a contract with Dylan….
So you think both Indigo and S&S created autopen graphs??

Yes they are.

There are 2 cases here:

1. product not as advertised is private law, they as seller are 100% responsible towards the buyer to issue refunds if the product is not what they claimed it was. If they were duped themselves they might have a case against a 3rd party themselves, but that does not mean they don't carry any responsibility.

2. Fraud is public law / criminal law which is more complicated, they could be found to have commited, conspired or have been complicit in fraud. With the LOA they took up at least some of that responsibility. 

Another issue is that it looks like my PayPal or credit card dispute is going to be against Snow Commerce Inc. So I guess they would be handling the response there? MESS

I totally Agree Jor - El 

Particularly with your last sentence I thought exactly the same thing  this morning - I too think it could be totally down to S&S themselves with their own Autopen machines and having some 16 year old newly employed S&S  trainee churning these out 19 to the dozen!!!

And the official Bob Dylan social media would endorse such fake copies?? Come one, very unlikely. Also very unlikely that two huge booksellers each decided to produce fake autopenned Dylan autographs without contacting Bob and take the risk of a lawsuit.
Dream on….



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