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How to handle a dispute? Please let me know your thoughts!

Hi everyone!

I would really appreciate your help regarding a transaction I’ve made with a trusted dealer (with a long experience of buying & selling) in a FB group where we can’t agree on a fair solution for both parties. I think it is most fair to not name either the dealer or the FB group and just focus on the facts.

Ok, here is the full (long) story: I sold two autographs for $520 to him and he got to choose if he wanted to pay a higher sum with Goods&Service or a lesser sum with Friends&Family, he chose to pay F&F. I then asked him if he wanted the package marked with a low value to avoid custom fees and he said yes to this. (See photo 1&2)

In my opinion both these choices were made to save the buyer money but both choises comes with a higher risk involved, which the buyer for sure knew since he has a long experience in the autograph community. I have myself bought lots of items where the sellers have marked the package low to save me from custom fees, always with the understanding that it means that it will not be insured and that I, as the buyer, will take the hit if something happens. I have always thought that was kind of a mutual understanding among collectors when marking an item with a low value.

The package was then shipped with trackingnumber and is trackable from me in Sweden to the buyer in the US. There is no way for me to put a $15 value on an item and then insure it for $520, since both shipping and insurance are bought from the same person at the postal office.

Unfortunally this time the package got lost, the US postal service has done an investigation and can’t find it.

The result of the buyers two choises above is that neither paypal (can’t use its buyer and seller protection since the payment was done with Friends&Family) or the swedish postal service (since it was marked with a low value) will cover for the lost package, meaning that if refunded I will take the full hit.

In my opinion I asked the buyer what he wanted, he got to decide what would be best for him and then I did as we agreed on. And now he still says this is all on me and that I should refund him all the money. I have offered him a 50% refund to be fair, although I tecnically don’t have to since he chose to pay with Friends&Family. And to be honest, the way he’s behaving I’m thinking of just block him and give him nothing back!!

When trying to explain this to the buyer he said that I was totally wrong and that he would make a thread on FB where he would ask the members for their opinion and according to him these replies would then determine how we settle this. But for some reason (!!!) he didn’t mention anything about him chosing Friends&Family and a low value on the package, that I shipped with trackingnumber and that I despite this still have offered him a 50% refund. If I didn’t know better it’s almost as if he did that on purpose to get the answers he wanted… He then uses the answers from the (misled) members to push me to refund him. And when contacting me with the results he for some reason only attach screenprints from the members that agrees with him, not everyone who doesn’t…

And now it has gone so far that he makes ”hidden threats” against me, saying that he will make a public post if I doesn’t fully refund him.

To get advices I’ve asked several of my long time collector friends how to handle this and one would refund even though he thinks the blaim isn’t on me, two would try to find a solution that both are happy with and the last three said that I shouldn’t refund anything, that the buyer fully knew what he was doing.

I have sold hundreds of autographs over the years and there have never been any problems until this autumn were two packages got lost at the same time. But the other had been marked with a correct value so after a long discussion with the swedish postal service (they never makes it easy) they finally covered the lost package and I could refund the seller and that situation got resolved. But the above is a very unfortunate situation for me. Here’s a link to some feedback I recieved at Autograph Magazine Live when selling here: https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/member-gogo?xg_source=activity

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts about this situation. Thank you for helping and take care!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bjorn VDB on December 30, 2021 at 6:03am

The buyer gambled, while he was 100% aware of the consequences being a professional dealer.

It's just stupid to buy with f&f, especially for such a large amount.

Offering a 50% refund is very VERY fair in this case.

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Permalink Reply by michelle on December 30, 2021 at 7:12am

oh well if the buyer was a professional dealer he was well aware of the risks and I also agree with Bjorn that in this case its a very fair amount to offer and also really stupid to pay in that way. How much was he/she saving?? Its just not worth the hassle.

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Permalink Reply by Bjorn VDB on December 30, 2021 at 7:34am

Indeed Michelle.

50% is just very fair.

I wouldn't be afraid at all the buyer makers a public post, why would that harm you?

If he doesn't accept 50% I wouldn't refund a dollar.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 30, 2021 at 6:53am

I know I'm going to be in the minority of opinions. With that said, once a seller accepts payment the responsibility of getting the goods to the buyer is imperative.

Unfortunately, the package was lost in the mail. Unless your buyer is willing to compromise the seller should return the funds in full. Manipulating the system is not a way of avoiding the consequences.

Sometimes lessons are learned the hard way.

If Paypal gets wind of this one or both parties could lose their ability to use Paypal's service in the future.

Risk has a way of biting a person on the rear end at times.

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Permalink Reply by Mikex on December 30, 2021 at 7:12am

As I said, if it were eBay, the seller would have to give a full refund. As a seller you have control on how it is paid and how it is sent. I would have refused the sellers request, especially at that price. It's a difficult one, especially as no one can make a legal claim. It's a matter of conscience.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 30, 2021 at 7:18am

First, this situation would not happen if purchased on eBay.

We are talking about legal versus moral accountability. The seller bears the higher risk morally.

Just my opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Bjorn VDB on December 30, 2021 at 7:30am

I don't agree.

The buyer should at least discussed before he buys what the consequences would be if the item got lost. He buys f&f AND allows a low value which implies the item is not insured. He should have just paid more but took the risk. The seller gave him all the options I think.

And the way he behaves afterwards is just not polite nor correct (his questions/story on FB doesn't add all the details). And this is not the first time.

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Permalink Reply by Mikex on December 30, 2021 at 7:57am

I have to agree with Joe. The onus is on the seller to get it delivered. He shouldn't have volunteered to send it at a low value, especially as the buyer only asked for F&F. An expensive lesson to all concerned.

Under normal conditions, if the item was lost, the seller would refund and make a claim against the postal service, so PayPal wouldn't need to intervene. The seller volunteered a low value, thus closing this option. The buyer wouldn't need to claim off PayPal. The buyer didn't request a low value on the package and the postal service, being the party who lost it, would be the source of the refund

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 30, 2021 at 10:31am

I have to agree with JoeW.

The PP thing alone is so important. Hakan knows how I feel about this situation. I like Hakan very much - he supplied perhaps my most impressive post 2000 Bowie signed CD.

I hope this can be worked out.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on December 30, 2021 at 1:22pm

I agree, Joe. Regardless of the agreement regarding the shipment of the item, the buyer paid for the item and is expecting to receive it. What happened isn’t surprising. If the seller isn’t willing to take the risk of it being lost in the mail, you have to send it insured. If the buyer doesn’t want to pay for customs fees and insurance, you’re taking a risk by selling to them.

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Permalink Reply by Mikex on December 30, 2021 at 8:35am

PayPal wouldn't give a refund if the postal service lost the package. They would tell you to make a claim through the postal service, so it's irrelevant in this case. The reason no one can get a refund is the low value of the package and not PayPal.

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Permalink Reply by Phil on December 30, 2021 at 9:09am

I think youve been more than fair offering a 50% refund... The buyer knew the risks involved and took the decision to go ahead...all the blame cant be left at your door.. At the end of the day, you are also losing out as youve now lost a signed piece.. Also theres no guarantee hes telling the truth.. It couldve turned up.. Nothing to fear here, youve done the right thing.. Let him write what he wants he needs to own his mistake and learn from it.