We're an eBay affiliate and may be compensated on purchases made through clicks.
Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
-
The Joe looks great... but the DiMaggio screams FU! lol
Don't feel bad... I have heard countless stories of sour encounters with DiMaggio at card shows. In fact, I've never heard a positive one.
-
Permalink Reply by Steve on
-
He was not very pleasant at all. Would hardly look up, no communication, no hand shake, etc.
-
-
That was his usual routine. When you hear stories of the "elegant and classy" Joe D, it always makes me laugh. Maybe he was that way to Presidents, Senators and movie stars... but to the average fan, he was an arrogant, dismissive %^%$#. He wasn't even on friendly terms with other ballplayers and business associates for the most part.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Charles Paul Brenner V on
-
Yes, I totally agree. But I always dismissed it as Joe being a grump because of his age, lost love ones etc., but if you guys say he's always been a grump, then I believe you. My most positive experience were with the Mick, Always willing to sign his autos with some personal inscription and a handshake... gotta love the Mick. Speaking of Mick, I wanted to tell my personal experience with forgers and why I love to hate forgeries, picking them out so they can't claim another victim.
When I was very young my father and I would frequent card shows, on my account because he wasn't a collector, and spend some great quality time together. One Christmas of a year we had been to a show, I went to open up my presents as a young child does. My father never bought the presents for me, but as soon as I opened it, I knew it was from him. Countless shaking of the present before Christmas with my fathers worried face screaming "STOP!!" let me on to the fact that it was a special, once in a life-time present from him anyway, but knowing he had actually bought me a present before hand still didn't take away from the specialness of the moment. It was a Mickey Mantle Autographed Ball (with a coa) and I, a mere 8 year old, now owned one. It was my most treasured possession for many years. Even though I received many more Mick Auto's over the years, I still treasured this one more than anything else because my best friend and father gave it to me. I always kept it out of sunlight and tucked away in the safe. After dad died suddenly,literally in my arms, I had a very tough time and found myself going to the safe to hold the treasure he had put so much thought into. As soon as I opened the safe and looked at the ball that had been put away for so many years, I noticed that the signature didn't look anything like my autos I acquired personally. I then educated myself on forgeries and although it has no shaky or slow pen marks, it just isn't Mick. I was heart broken to say the least and still am. I know it might sound stupid to some of you but this ball has caused me much pain over the last two years since my dads death and the discovery of the forgery on my most important keepsake of my father. These forgers just don't know what they do to us collectors. Even me, a sharp eye when it comes to forgeries, I still am effected greatly. Here is a picture of the ball that got the best of me and my father. If anyone knows something that I don't. Like he actually signed his name like this at one point in time. Let me know. I find myself hating forgers more and more every time I look at this ball, but I just can't get rid of it, in fact I display it next to my real Mick autos ... I really don't know why.. I guess it's simply a way to remember the thought he put into doing something special for me, but all I see when I look at this ball is a forger laughing at my father for being a sucker.
[Click photo for a large version.]
-
-
-
Charles. Sorry to hear about your Dad. It's true that forgery is NOT a victimless crime and they do more than just steal money.
Regarding the Mantle ball, I'm not so certain it's fake. I would defer to those who have more expertise than me, but in my view, it has some positive characteristics and I suspect it ** might** be real but a sloppy, rushed signature. Any idea the approximate time it was signed or purchased? What kind of ball is it?
-
-
-
I agree that Mick was a great at shows. He would ask which color pen you wanted and where you would like the signature. Always very pleasant and friendly.
-
-
He bought it in 1989, but as far as being able to tell when it was signed, I am at a loss. the ball is one of those league balls without the league presidents name and facsimile signature on it so I really can't tell the date on it, but man I kept in in great condition with absolutely no sunlight and I believe if it was actually real, then it would receive a very high psa grade. The thing is that I dont want to spend 100 bucks to have psa tell me it's a fake. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do to get the verdict on this ball for sure? And I really don't mind paying a high amount as long as I know its real, but its a real gamble on something like this.
-
-
-
Charles, I don't want to raise false hopes, but I really think this may be an authentic Mantle. It's a bit sloppy and rushed, but that is actually good in my view. Forges tend to be slowly drawn and too neat.
In 1989, Mantle was alive and his signature was in good supply and selling for a relatively small amount of money. I'm sure there were a few fakes, but nothing compared to the scale we see today.
I would list the ball on ebay and obtain a PSA quick opinion on the item. I believe this cost around $8. Once you get your opinion, end the item.
-
-
-
wow! that's Joe. Personally, I feel that his horrible signatures make him one of the hardest for me to detect when it comes to forgeries. Seeing stuff like this home plate really gives you an idea of Joe's attitude toward the fans. I remember trying to brown nose him to raise his spirits but he never even looked up. Don't feel bad... we all have our bad Joe signatures and bad Joe experiences.
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
-
Charles, I'm sure Larry will chime in on the Mantle once he reads your post. He checks in every day or so.
-
-
Thanks so much guys. I am feeling better about it, but trying not to get too excited before I really know. The reason I feel it a forgery is the M's of course because they are not very rounded, and the "a" in mantle should connect itself to the very top of the "n". The a to n connection is usually a big giveaway to me for a forge and although this one looks like Mickey just rushed it and doesn't look like the typical forgery which smushes the a and n together at the sides, it still doesn't have a very typical Mickey signature. I have often thought that this looks exactly like Mick just rushed the signature because it has so many good Mick traits about it and so few things going against it, but still I have thought it a fake just for the M's and the a to n connection , which really is much more like mick than a forger. There is still hope yet . You guys have my hopes and optimism back for this ball so thats good and thank you. I wish I could just send psa a picture and they could tell me whether or not to send it. It seems silly that it has to be in auction.
-
-
Permalink Reply by James Wymer on
-
Put it in an auction with a ridiculous starting bid. You are not selling the item just pretending to be so that you can get the PSA quick opinion.
Photos
Videos
Groups
© 2024 Created by Steve Cyrkin, Admin.
Powered by
Badges | Report an Issue | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
