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STUDY: Jerry Lee Lewis - TTM real or not real

Steve asked me to start a new thread since some were having a lot of issues with regards to whether or not the through the mail autographs of Jerry Lee Lewis are real or not. I will post some examples of what we have been getting recently and some know in person examples. These TTM signatures are not cheap. You have to pay $50 for them to his box office box. The question is are they real or not. Roger has said that he has never seen Mr. Lewis sign this way and it looks to perfect - like a woman's signature.

Please post your thoughts here and examples.

thanks

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on October 10, 2015 at 4:03am

Yes. While the J isn't usually connected to "erry" with an ink trail the same way you see it connected between y and Lee, it often flows up and intertwines into the rest of the signature.

With the books, the J appears to be an independent unit instead. In my opinion, it creates an overall feeling that it was methodically assembled piece by piece rather than the quick, instinctual transition you see in verified authentic examples.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on October 10, 2015 at 12:13pm

I’ve seen a good number of signatures in which there is absolutely no interaction between the elements, with what appears to be pronounced pen lefts and no sign of ink trails. That includes a group of photos that were signed in quantity. I’ve also seen standalone signatures with strong interaction between elements. I consider this to be the result of the use of different signature styles. We don’t know how many pages he signed in a single sitting. If he got into a routine and made an attempt to sign consistent signatures, would we expect to see him switch to a different signature style due to fatigue? We’ve seen a very small percentage of those 700 or 750 signed books. Can we be sure at this time that he didn’t do so?

These are more abbreviated signatures with no loop in the “Y” and no flourish at the end of the “J”, consistent with authentic exemplars. It appears to me as though there was an attempt to repeatedly sign his style of “Y” and “J” that would be the quickest to sign. However, we can see examples in which there are remnants of the sharp upstroke to both the right and left at the end of the “Y”, which are characteristics of his authentic signature.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on October 10, 2015 at 7:14pm

I recall seeing these examples before and I'm not sure I would agree these upward ticks rise to the level of free flowing interaction I previously mentioned. Even a proxy signer is going to have to plow through a huge stack and you are going to get some pen drags, etc. The point is that it happens in a significantly lower frequency than one would expect... Same goes for the J that loops up and over "erry."

If if was just these factors alone and everything else completely passed the smell test, I would understand how it can be less than convincing. However, it's an entire constellation of consistently atypical traits combined with anecdotal information from independent sources. We even had a former official in the JLL fan club state that proxy signers are being used.

In my opinion there is a problem if you have to work really hard and have to do a "lot of explaining" to defend a signature style. Perhaps we'll never agree on these... And that's okay. I'd like to think this discussion has been of value even if consensus has not been reached :-)

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on October 10, 2015 at 7:50pm

That would mean that PSA/DNA authenticated a signature from a limited edition containing “an entire constellation of consistently atypical traits”, with the LOA being signed by their lead authenticator?

I did make a list of traits contained within and spread across the available book signatures that are consistent with authentic exemplars, but it was never addressed.

I do agree that there is a problem when this much explaining is required. In any case, while I strongly disagree with your conclusion, I appreciate that you took the time to look into this issue.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on October 11, 2015 at 5:56am

Ballroom, you and Steve are to be commended for the manner in which you have both presented the support for your positions. Regardless of which side we are on (and I happen to agree with Steve on this one), this has been educational and a great example of how these discussions should be conducted.

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Permalink Reply by Null on October 12, 2015 at 8:18am

Couple more things I've found:

Someone sent $20 in October 2013 and received this back:

This from a 2011 TTM thread, when he was beginning to charge $10/item:
"Hi Sara
If I were you, I would save your money. The ones that were received a few months back were likely secretarial. I also remember reading on a JLL forum that all his "autographs" are signed by his assistant. People on that board claimed that JJL hands are so shaky, he doesnt sign anything and leaves it to his assistant to do all his signing."

Here's a TTM success from March 2015:
TTM Success from October, 2011:
TTM Success, September 2011:

Please note by "success" I merely mean they got something back...

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on October 12, 2015 at 9:37am

the stamped one looks good!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Viola on October 12, 2015 at 11:02am

I 've never seen so many hand writing styles from one person! The only ones that are consistent are the 3 IPs I got in person and other IPs I have seen thru the years from various friends.