Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by goodcat on April 22, 2018 at 9:16pm

I absolutely agree the discussion of Adolf or people of his makeup should NOT be discussed openly on here. 

If I understand your question correctly, are you asking for a plus/minus discussion?

Pluses ...

1/ ALL signatures should be relevant to discuss their authenticity here

Minuses...

1/  N/A

It's as simple as this for me. What people "feel" about the person behind the signature should have NO bearing in the authenticity of signature discussion... period.

It is clear that the majority vote is in favor of no censorship in regards to signature's alone. 

I'm not sure how a private group would work, so I have no real input on that. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by sling on April 23, 2018 at 8:18am

I wonder how other sites deal with Hitler-faceboo, yahoo, quora, etc since thy would be dealing with the same activity stream issues

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on April 23, 2018 at 8:26am

I certainly understand and respect the reactions of those that would like to ban the subject of Hitler on here. I take it from the approach of a historian who sees the need in preserving documents of any historical figure no matter how repulsive. Personally I would not want to touch a Hitler or any Nazi figure for that matter. I can see where someone interested in WWII might want to collect all the Axis and Allied leaders. I think a reasoned discussion on the authenticity of any autograph is fine. I would not be comfortable with someone being a cheerleader for the Third Reich. I come to this from a very personal perspective in that my father fought against the Nazis and Hitler during the war. Perhaps a compromise would be to allow discussions for authenticity purposes but for monetary value have them use private messages. In the event of a pro-Nazi troll I am certain Mr. Cyrkin would be swift in banning them.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on April 23, 2018 at 7:14am

My suggestion:

• Authenticity discussions should be open to any autograph. While I have no desire to own anything touched by Hitler, Osama Bin Laden, Stalin, serial killers, etc... I believe we should assume good intent and not judge those who collect these genres. There is also the slippery slope risk. In this discussion we have already had equivalencies drawn between Hitler and President Truman. When you ban one, where does it end?
• I would NOT allow the sale or advertisement of Hitler and other mass murderers here. It just feels wrong. In my mind, there is a distinction between academic authenticity discussion vs the platform being used to monetize such signatures. I would leave the "banned sale" list entirely at the discretion of Steve as the site owner.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by sling on April 23, 2018 at 8:14am

+1

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by TradeGeek on April 23, 2018 at 1:19pm

I certainly respect the opinion being expressed. And they are certainly all valid. My instinct is always err on the side of the principal of free and open discussion. I also fully appreciate the historical importance of someone like Hitler, Stalin or any other infamous figure. I also understand collectors interest in possessing something associated with significant aspects of history, even if the item is something I personally would not want. 

However, I will draw a significant distinction; at least in my mind. Hitler isn't dead to history. Not to many many people. He remains a beloved symbol of a belief system that is still alive and well; albeit significantly diminished from it's peak in the 1930s. His picture and the iconography he made infamous are still proudly displayed by some. He is still revered in the dark, rat hole sewers of politics in the US, Western Europe and even in the Middle East. 

This isn't the case with just about any other figure. You don't see people marching in the streets of US cities with imagery of Mao, Stalin or Pol Pot. We have very recently seen this happen with with White Nationalists/Neo-Nazis. 

In my opinion, a line should be drawn. It should be drawn on the basis of a simple principal. Is there a realistic chance that the autograph in question could be used or otherwise claimed by those who wish to promote or glorify the evil ideology or acts of the subject? There aren't many Khmer Rouge supporters left. Not many Stalin fans, even among hardened Communists. But Hitler? Osama Bin Laden? There are still a lot of people out there who would like nothing more than to pick up right where they left off. If it were up to me, I wouldn't want to play a role in a Hitler autograph becoming the center piece of a Neo-Nazi altar. 

That said do I think people should destroy their Hitler items? No. But I would encourage them not to resell them. Donate them to a museum or library where they can be preserved for the right reasons. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bill Fraser on April 23, 2018 at 1:50pm

I see people’s arguments on both sides. I feel this is an autograph site so should be allowed and it would be difficult to decide which  are allowed and which aren’t. Whatever Steve decides to do is fine with me. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by goodcat on April 23, 2018 at 7:42pm

Out of all the members here (11000+) and especially the daily active one's, I must say I am a little disappointed in the turnout of votes or opinions. 

This is a serious matter and to sit on the sidelines is like not voting in a National election. Steve has asked for comments. If you don't care, then say so. 

This is NOT about Hitler persay. It truly is a censorship issue. Who's signature should be allowed on here to discuss it's authenticity. It's really that simple. Personal feelings and personal judgements have nothing to do with it. This is strictly an academic decision. The major auction houses do NOT forbid sales of Hitler or others, so why would this place deem it necessary to ban certain signatures. 

Maybe Steve could set up a secret ballot vote thread and let the majority rule. After all, we do live in a democratic society, right? 

Hitler was a despicable monster who would give the devil himself a run for his money. But he was and is and will always be a major part of world history and discussed in schools and  documentaries and scholarly journals. Nobody of sane mind would condone what he did. 

state your opinions!!! because if Hitler is banned, then more will follow. And that's just wrong. 

I know I'm the outspoken one here, but I believe this is an important issue in the present and future tense. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 23, 2018 at 10:04pm

This is a great discussion. How's this:

We set up a private group for Hitler and other despicables, at least for now, that anyone can join, but the posts won't show up outside of that group. That way those of us who hate the name won't be upset whenever visit Autograph Live.

It's like zoning. And like Playboys being sealed at 7-11.

What does everyone think?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by marc e on April 23, 2018 at 10:06pm

That would be grate so I dont have to see name when I come to the site

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by michelle on April 23, 2018 at 10:55pm

sometimes one has to stand for what one believes in,  and I am very unhappy at Hitler's autograph being allowed to be included.  Yes , I do know I am in the minority in AML and that it is an autograph site but I am   proud  to decide to take this stance. After all, no one stuck up for any minority when Hitler first started his killing sprees ?   If it is a historian, however, needing help for a poject or something like that, - that is a different issue.

I realise my views are in the minority ;- but I feel it remains my right to have these views

A private group in some ways would be better if one has to discuss the autographs of some of these murders but then it could become a home for fascists and neo nazis

Anyway, these are my views.

Yours sincerely

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by goodcat on April 23, 2018 at 11:24pm

Your comments are valid Michelle.

Everyone's comments are valid here.

That is the point of this discussion. To hear opinions. You have no need to feel shame as I have no need. 

I only want to correct you on one point you made. When you said no one stuck up for the minorities when he started his killing spree's... that is simply just not true. WWII was only a war because countries opposed him and lucky for the world they did intervene. A war takes 2 sides. Otherwise it's just a full on take over if no one opposes it directly and with force. 

Also... I highly doubt it will become a breeding ground for neo nazis as the content will still be supervised. I myself will report any nefarious activities to Steve C

Anyway.... I am more than happy to have a private forum for this topic. It's A LOT better than outright banning people of certain persuassions.

Thank you Steve. you are indeed a man of scholar and fair mindedness

Sorry I took so long to reply as I was in the middle of writing my travel report

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• 8
• Next ›
• Page