Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on December 4, 2015 at 6:55pm

He should throw in a forgery and offer a free Harrison Ford autograph to the first member to identify it.

Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on December 4, 2015 at 6:58pm

Hahahaha, at one point I had forgery scans from,  Moser, autographczar, grannysattic, bubbasmancave, stills4u and oldgit in that album.

When I realized they were not there I figured poor Mike would spend all night trying to figure out which were bad.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 4, 2015 at 5:58pm

Yes, Pete. 

I've known Stephen Duncan for a good 6 years. I've met him, his wife and his family at their house and I've had top people that I trust vouch for his credibility. I have always trusted him as much as I have trusted you, since Isaw you on Rebel Scum and was told by Bob Jones of Autograph World that you were his most respected expert  on Star Wars. If Bob thinks you're good, it doesn't get better than that.

So this discussion has come out of left field for me.

I think the Eagles and Pink Floyd autographs are A-OK, but we're going to go over them here, up, down forward and back. And Steve will make his case, on his own or through me. (Hopefully "in person.")

There's only one Harrison Ford, so that's not high on my list, but it will be addressed.

The Leonard Nimoy autographs that are so similar and not what we're used to seeing, so that bothers me a lot. You know how highly I think of you, but since they could reflect so highly on Steve's credibility, I want to get more opinions.

The Shatners are unusually readable. Was his autograph much clearer during the first few Pasadena Star Trek conventions? Do you know for sure? I think they need more opinions, even though I think you're hot sh*t.

And I do.

There are four Paul McCartneys I don't think he could have signed, ever. There are two, the last two, that I'm open to exemplars on...but not hopeful.

But the most important thing to take into account is that Stephen Duncan has been seriously collecting rock autographs, in person, far longer than most of us here. In some cases longer than they've been alive.

It's easy to destroy someone's reputation.

It's very hard for them to recover it once that's done.

So let's give Steve the time and opportunity he deserves.

Are you all with me on that?

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on December 4, 2015 at 6:06pm

I am, would definitely like it to come from him. Im really intrigued with the Eagles stuff.

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Permalink Reply by 2t7o4rndea2r0 on December 5, 2015 at 6:58am

Ian - after PSA rejected two of the items I purchased from Stephen Duncan, I went on a personal quest to satisfy myself that the signatures are legit, beyond Stephen's guarantee (and offer of full refund if I wanted).  I started with Don Henley and to date, have not gotten any further.  One important thing to understand about Henley is that there are at least three perfectly valid and totally different Henley signatures.  Even skeptics here acknowledge that Stephen has a great deal of authentic Eagles stuff, so referring to his website now, please go look at two specific items: 1) the Waldon Woods document.  This is the cursive style D that is most widely accepted as a good Henley signature.  2) then look at the Heaven is Under our Feet book inscribed to Stephen and his wife Maria.  This is one version of the printed D (and I verified other signed books and they are the same).  3) then look at the Cass County examples posted here by MikeT.  I have 3 of these myself.  This is a third, totally different letter D.  I believe Stephen Duncan would say that Henley has one or two more authentic styles.  I'm not implying at all that MikeT suggested that the Cass County examples are the only legit signature examples.  But they are the only ones that have been presented here so far.  Steiger's posting of the Henley's he thought were bad makes basically no argument at all.  "they look the same" is not an argument.  Anyway, I"m no expert, but Henley is not easy to deal with because his signature can be very different, it seems at any time. 

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on December 5, 2015 at 7:34am

The point in posting the Cass County examples was to show that even when he sits down and signs 200 autographs in the same sitting, there are a lot of differences and no 2 signatures are exactly the same. On Mr. Duncan's items, the Henleys are all exactly the same, you do not see the variation you would normally see in Henleys signature. So if Henley can't sign his name the same exact way in one sitting, how does it make sense that it is signed exactly the same way on Mr. Duncan's items that he supposedly acquired over a period of 20+ years?

I agree there are not a lot of in person examples, I included the one to show how different even that one was. I will be adding more Henley examples and I'm also working on a mini study for the Zeppelin items.

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Permalink Reply by 2t7o4rndea2r0 on December 5, 2015 at 8:33am

Thanks Mike. Understand. A couple of thoughts. It seems to me that sitting down to sign 200 autographs consecutively is precisely when consistency would be most difficult to attain, especially, maybe even only at the end of a signature when you may be impatient to get to the next one. Also, I went back and looked at the Henley signatures Steiger posted. Maybe I'm just not capable of keeping up in this type of discussion, but they absolutely are not exactly the same. Are a couple pretty close? Sure. But if this set is supposed to represent evidence of forgery because they are "exactly the same", then to me, it fails.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on December 5, 2015 at 10:00am

The point is that they are much, much more similar than the examples posted.. and they were supposedly signed in different years altogether.  It just doesn't add up.

I'll post a comparison with things circled so you can see.. but the way the D loops into the o is a good starting point.  That is consistent across all of Mr. Duncan's signatures, but never consistent across authentic examples.  Could it be that Don Henley signed the exact same way for Mr. Duncan every time he met him over a period of many years?  Yes.  Is it likely?  Not at all.

You take an example like that, combine it with 10 other similar examples that don't make sense and the only logical conclusion is that they are forgeries.

Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on December 5, 2015 at 7:36am

Thanks Christopher. Im gonna drag out my Walden Woods print,signed Heaven book and take pics. Im not as computer savvy and really appreciate it when you guys post these multiple sigs for comparison,keeps it interesting!

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Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on December 4, 2015 at 6:16pm

I agree completely. I just wanted to let you know that he may not be back here (according to his last post) and hoped that you might be able to bring him back or at least bring back some answers.

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Permalink Reply by Peter C. on December 5, 2015 at 2:58am

Actually - I´m quite shocked and sad to read the whole discussion. There is one major "rule"  which seems to be completely ignored here:
The ONLY thing which is supposed to be considered are autographs! I know that original name for discussion was quite rude and personal accusation. Actually - I have very serious doubts about authenticity of some items and let´s say that the discussion about "FM´s" autographs obtained through BM´s office is very misleading too - as blue-ballpoint promo picture (obtained this way) is very obvious fake! Trying to proof authenticity by saying "Brian May would have to lie then" is just pure demagogy to be honest - please consider the whole situation.

Keep on mind it was in 1991 when FM was at very final stage of his battle against terrible AIDS and band members really actually LIED about his health status - they pretended as "nothing wrong" happening to protect him! Now - just try to imagine that situation for yourself - you want to make fan happy (and you know that at that time he had no chance how to check the authenticity of the item!), but at the same you dont want to bother your struggling deadly sick friend and collegue with such an uninportant nonsence (as it is seen by many artists - just necessary evil) as autographs are. So yes - I think that Brian actually didnt want to bother FM with such a thing (which is actually quite understandable!) and probably asked someone in his crew to solve it. Sad rule says: when story sounds too good to be true, then it´s probably not true. So I´m not saying that Stephen´s story is wrong, it probably happened like he wrote - that BM promised him to send some stuff signed.... but with knowing that Stephen (as fan) had no chance how to verify the authenticity of item and with consideration of FM´s health status - it´s much more probably that these items were signed by someone from Queen crew rather than from struggling seriously sick Freddie himself. It´s nothing else than critical thinking about the situation.

Actually I´m also quite suprised that in case of PF - the strangest items actually arent discussed yet! I have no idea about how RW´s handwritting looked in late 80s or thoughout 90s, but I know one thing - if these items would be shown to me (asking for opinion, and I´m not authenticator or seller) without saying a word about who owns them, I would consider them as "probable fake"... This is the reason why I said we should talk ONLY about items, not about who is who. Are you really 100% sure that this one
http://www.rockandrollcollection.com/images/pink-floyd/Roger%20Wate...

is 100% authentic one? I see many warning signals - especially the exactly the same shaping of the end of David / Rick and and both of these are very similar to "Mason" part in "Nick´s" and "Gilmour" part of David´s autograph. Also whole RW´s autograph is very strange and completely different to typical authentic examples. So actually my first guess in this case would be that three blue ones are written by one hand with the same marker.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 5, 2015 at 8:14am

Stephen. I have been following this discussion quite intently. I think it's important to share all accurate information on authentic signatures as possible. Even those that doesn't fit the mold. The truth is always the truth. Autographs is a hobby full of debates and that is a good thing. Stand your ground. Honestly always pays off in the long run. Never worry about the naysayers.

Unfortunately, this hobby is becoming more and more based on the third party services. In a world where more people value the COA over the signature itself shows how little most collectors spend their time learning about it. 

Keep your head up and carry on!

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