Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Grungegarden on December 5, 2015 at 8:09pm

It's taking me a while to go through the website and this post. But from what I've seen so far I tend to agree with Steve. This should be discussed until its all worked out. Obviously this guy is well known and he does sell from time to time so its a matter of his reputation and and product quality. That's everything in this hobby.

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Permalink Reply by Coachgd on December 5, 2015 at 7:09pm

I find this a very interesting discussion.  I have been collecting sports autographs in person for over 20 years.  Everything that I have, I have seen the person sign it in front of me or a friend of mine has gone to a show and gotten an item signed in front of them.  I usually took a picture of the person signing my item if I could.  Not that pictures mean much today.

Two years ago, I decided to shift my focus to music.  After shows, I have met a lot of musicians and it is always fun to see who will sign, or just blow off fans.  On a few occasions, the tour manager has taken my items and gone on the tour bus or back stage to get the items signed.  I assumed that the items were signed by the artist, just like Stephen has done. I am 99% sure that all of my items are legit.  However, as it has been pointed out, unless you see it signed in front of you, there has to be a little doubt.  You would like to think everything is good, but you just don't know. 

I have gone to Stephen's site often and have been amazed at all the people that he has met and the items that he has.  I do think he needs to say whether the item was signed in front of him, ttm or by other means.  That would clear up a lot of problems.

That's just my 2 cents.  

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Permalink Reply by Grungegarden on December 5, 2015 at 8:42pm

Exactly. I used to go to shows as a kid and I got stuff "signed" by aerosmith and Sound Garden. Same thing. I went to the shows and brought items to have the guys sign and had my items "taken to be signed" by various people that worked for the tour. Turned out to be fakes both times.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 5, 2015 at 10:42pm

Well, I agree with Steve. Caution is always best in discussions like these. It does seem, to me, that no matter how fast or slow you discuss or examine those Nimoy signatures, the result is going to be the same. Nothing to be gained by rushing whatever we are discussing, and the many scans are visible and they say whatever they are going to say to those who care to look.

"I do think he needs to say whether the item was signed in front of him, ttm or by other means.  That would clear up a lot of problems."

Not for me, not so much. For example, if it were to be that many were not...as they were described, to me for whatever reason, I would not be overtly interested in the rest of the discussion - if that were the case. I have no idea.  Those things in the quote above, IMHO, ultimately, have no bearing on the signature and its presentation/formation. That is all I am looking at. If IP...should (ideally/technically) have a clear photo of the item being signed and bear strong resemblance to known IP signatures of the time. Obviously, in the real world, one does not expect or need a candid of every album signing, every unexpected signing...one does not need a photograph of Eddie Redmayne and Alfred Molina signing a playbill for Red to ascertain the veracity of the signatures, but one does expect the signatures, especially if in some quantity, to bear strong resemblance to a larger sample of the same signed playbill. But TTM and "other means" don't help the case and the signature is again, all that remains to examine. At worst, the TTM could yield a secretarial, and "other means" might get you something like a Mal Evans "Beatles" or "Mama" Jean Harlow autograph. So I don't "weight" those things very much if at all. I mean, it is wonderful to have the envelope for a Joan Crawford letter, especially one with less-than-middling content, but that is not what we are talking about here. But, if that Joan Crawford signature is way outside the box, that typed envelope, blue stationary, the date, the secretary's ballpoint note - will mean nothing to me. I am not fond of signatures that require explanations.

Eric

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 5, 2015 at 11:22pm

Let's look at the Henley groupings posted.

The top group was prepared by N.Steiger and contains ones he said he took from some of Stephen Duncan's albums.

The bottom group was assembled by Mike T and contains ones he says are genuine examples. All from the CD signing, Mike? One member doesn't care for the top left one.

Here are the two Henleys that we used in the cover story on Stephen in 2010:

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 6, 2015 at 12:14am

I downloaded the Eagles images with Henley's autograph on them from Stephen's site and will work on a compilation later tomorrow when I can. At this point, I'm concerned about the ones in the top grouping, too. 

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Permalink Reply by A.B. on December 6, 2015 at 12:21am

I agree with Steiger. The ones in his compilation look wrong. Cookie cutter style, but not Henley.
The bottom two sigs from the cover story look completly different and are legit in my opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on December 6, 2015 at 7:20am

The top left image in my compilation is from an album, the graph is rushed but authentic, Epperson agreed, however we can take it out if you like. I only included it to make a point on the strong variation.

The two new images you posted are authentic, IMO none of the original ones Steiger posted are authentic, and it appears the image of the guitar in the cover story may not be as well.  Would need a closer look.

Henley has wide variation in his signature, which you can see in Duncan's authentic examples as well, but not in the top ones.  

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 6, 2015 at 7:42am

I would leave the one in the top left at this time. Mike, one thing that would help, when you can, is to post larger images of autographs. They will automatically be resized smaller for display in the thread, but then when you click them they enlarge to full-size.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 6, 2015 at 7:46am

Sorry, Mike, that was Steiger's images I was referring to size on.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on December 6, 2015 at 8:15am

I just looked and I can't do any better than Steiger did, some of the website images are pretty poor resolution, and on the multi-signed items the signatures are very small.  With better scans I could make a high-res collage.

When you look at the collage and then scroll through his Eagles page, it becomes very easy to spot the good and the bad.

The more I look, the more I see a pattern with the Walsh, Felder, Frey and Schmit graphs too.  Some are good, others are not.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on December 6, 2015 at 9:27am

Here are some of the Eagles autographs he has offered for sale to members here:

1. Note the consistent Henley style we see throughout Mr. Duncan's examples, this is not authentic.

1 and 2. Note the Felder style is consistent in these two examples, but it does not match 3, 5 or 6.

1 and 3. Note the Walsh style is consistent in these two, but it does not match 2, 5 or 6.  Look particularly at the "Walsh" part, it is easier to tell.

2. The Schmit we see here is not even close to the ones we see in 1 and 3.

3. Harder to see, but the Glen Frey does not match. This becomes more apparent when you bring in more examples, but compare the 'gl', 'f' and 'y' to the ones found in 1, 2, 5 and 6.

4. Authentic.

5 and 6. Look good, but can't see the Henley to be sure.

Here is another item he has sold to a member here:

Note the same consistent Henley style, and compare the Frey to the one in #3 above.  Also note the authentic Felder here in comparison to #1 and #2 above.

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