Per Steve, we may be opening up trading for preorders on this forum or a separate group. This is a bit complex in itself though, as the variables with these preorders make an even swap somewhat difficult. Authenticity aspects aside, some points of contention are: time the item will actually come in, quality/condition of said product, governing transactions, etc. Also, where trades would be (i.e. a new forum?) is also a significant question, as I don't think people want threads swamped with those posts.
Straight sales are probably probably something we want to avoid for now, as facilitating these seems to open a pandora's box of issues, even if they are technically easier than online trades.
Any thoughts are welcome, as this is just a brainstorming session for now.
You would need some kind of reputation system to stop bad actors, I think.
I'm surprised that some people want to go down this route, given all that's been mentioned above and the amount of complaints in delays, questions of authenticity and other nonsense that goes on here. Something sells out or you live in the wrong country? Get it off eBay or let it go. That's my helpful tip!
If people want to trade let them deal with that by PM each other and sort it out privately. There are many issues as you say Rich.
People could set up buddy arrangements with other trusted collectors in countries and again this can be done privately. The forum would then have done its job by connecting and helping people with a similar interest.
Like others, just my thoughts. I simply love the forum the way it is and am so very grateful to all who participate in the way it was set up to do. Keep up the good work.
This seems rather difficult to organise, as other members have said many problems could arise. It'd be nice to have a restricted circle of reliable collectors willing to help one another with no money involved. I have started offering a few items for free to a few people already, I hope this will go around and they will help out other people as well This being said a rating system would be ideal, but probably not easy to implement.
you are right that it is complicated and I am glad you checked with Steve first because I know some people in here will have a problem with this thread even existing. for me personally, I would like to keep the transactions to a minimum because there are a lot of things that could go wrong like shipping issues, authenticity, etc., I also wouldn't want this place to turn into a marketplace. the only problem I have is that I always hear it should be in P.M.'s only but you have to be able to mention that you are looking for one or have an extra in the forum to know who to P.M., but even with that you risk a thread being bombarded by trade talk like what happened with all the Elton/ Coldplay ones recently. it did make it impossible to see any actual updates so I also understand those aggravated by this point of view as well. the only thing I can think of would be to have one thread open as a sort of bulletin board to say you have an extra or are looking for a certain item and then you could handle it in the PMs from there. but with new people showing up in here all the time, how do you get everyone to know to only use the one thread for this? complicated
I wrote Steve a few days ago, and what I think we need first is a place where we can have general discussions outside "direct sales" (and also ,if possible, some private discussions) , as there are many topics that do not fit here, and even a follow up on some of the received goods will make the thread jump to top (and send many unwanted follow alerts), which is not desirable.
So perhaps a shadow thread in another forum with chit chat for the more popular conversations, leaving the "Music-direct" only for real updates.
As for actual trading/pre-order , I believe this more complicated than we think, not only because of bad seller option, but also due tot other problems raised here. A person that asks someone to get him something needs to take full responsibility on his/hers request, like returns/autopen/missing autograph(anyone else still waiting for the billy idol one?) or whatever.
Last thing, it would also be nice to be able to react on a comment with a smiley (e.g. Thumbs up on something you agree).
And Last Last thing, I understand there should be an update to the website coming up :)
One of the first things that comes to mind is the Ebay sellers who sell things they don't actually have for stupid prices, and then how badly that can go depending on absurdly poor quality (Lady Gaga), autopens (Ozzy) and even really low quality rubber stamps (Tate McRae). Likewise, if people start selling/trading things they don't have in hand here, that's a recipe for chaos.
Personally I think the idea is good. It would be cool if there were another section dedicated to it. But that it be kept at someone making a 'looking to get offer' and the rest should all be done via PM. Personally I would most likely pass on ever putting myself in the position of trading. Although if there was a more than one limit I would order for someone else no problem (as long as it was something normally priced). But I say via PM because the 2 parties would have to agree on whatever. We all shouldn't be included in the actual transaction or offers. The people offering Lady Gaga/Tony Bennett for Elton John a couple of weeks ago IMO wasn't a great trade. But if the two parties agree to it who am I to say any different? Some of these the 'buy' price like Gaga/Bennett was under $20 but immediately they went for $200+ on eBay. So for myself I wouldn't actually know a starting point on what the trade value is which is why I would probably stay out of it. Do you go by the paid for price or the actual value price (not claiming eBay is that) when setting it up?
I also collect guitar picks and have had issues in the past where someone wanted to trade 1 for 1 but the values per pick change and it just ended up being a pain in the butt. In some instances you could sell a single pick and buy 10 of the other with the money you got for the one. So why would you trade 1 for 1? So I have a little experience in this type thing which would cause me to pass and just avoid the headache or p****** someone else off who is probably a good person who doesn't look at things the same as I do. They are just happy getting 2 autographed items.
As I said if done via PM to each their own. As long as both parties are happy why not?
The problem with hosting a private forum where you will discuss things outside "general sales" (ostensibly in an attempt to keep certain sales/deals away from scalpers and the like) is two-fold.
(a) It creates a "have / have not" atmosphere where certain users aren't classified the same as others. It needlessly segments discussions (which are already segmented enough as it is, via all the specialty boards, so much so that there are users on this site that seem to think it's all musician autographs, all the time, and that's all that can be allowed) into further camps. That doesn't help anybody, and the people who are going to snipe deals aren't going to be discouraged by a single site gatekeeping discussions. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
(b) It solves nothing. There are plenty of people out there who either keeping up with or scooping this site on deals. Blowout Cards is just one forum, but there are others.
If there's a problem with people derailing threads with shipping / frivolous discussions, you should call a mod for cleanup, and/or click the "Stop Following" tab underneath the comment box if your inbox is being spammed. (That's what I did with the Grohl discussion.)
I think that straight sales are not easily operable without a lot of risk for the owners of the site. Acting as a discussion venue where those transactions are raised, but where the transactions are completed as private sales through sites such as eBay or Discogs might be more readily operable. Then this site exists are a place to begin discussions, but the transaction can be arranged through a site where formal buyer and seller protections exist. Discogs is likely the better route for something like this as the fees tend to be lower than on eBay, and they have VAT registry to avoid messy holdups for international transactions. Even straight trades through the site have the potential to get ugly. There are too many rules and venues to be able to safely conduct these transactions without the site taking on an element of risk. This will require legal and financial oversight and could still result in legal actions being taken against the site's owners in some cases (sad, but true.)
This - trading "pre-order slots" requires a whole number of links that could fail at any point. Was the release delayed? Do you trust the seller/buyer enough? Is there liability protection in the event that the pre-order is pushed back several months? What is the "in-kind" value of the item being traded, and has that increased/decreased? Even EBay has had challenges with big-ticket releases in the past that have been delayed by months, forcing sellers to scramble to either refund or credit their customers.
All of this is good reason to continue avoiding the practice I suppose.
Personally, I don't recall trading really anything since I was a kid (baseball cards, maybe?). I buy things I want and sell - or give away, depending on the item and circumstance - things I don't need. Typically trades aren't necessary. But people like trades, I get it.
My personal take is that if you miss out on a preorder, the next best shot is going to Ebay (or Depop, Mercari, etc) to buy them once people have the item in hand. I realize this sounds like blasphemy, but it's not quite as bad as you may think. A good amount of the time you actually can get items for close to - or even below - the original cost. There's also the advantage of buying exactly what you want and knowing what you're getting, including the condition, product/signature quality and authenticity scouting report. Obviously anything that is genuinely limited and in high demand will be much more complex, including older releases in which the artist subsequently rose in popularity (and hence the item in value).